Best tire choice??

[E350]

I respectfully disagree. But that is the beauty of this country. You have the freedom not to use studded tires and I, who have been safely driving on studded tires for the past 10 years, can choose to use them. Freedom is a beautiful thing but it is fragile and must be protected.*

When reading the abstract below (the underline is mine) please also consider that the highway patrolman who reports to the scene, the ambulance which takes the injured to the hospital, and the tow truck which will remove the damaged vehicles from the highway, if the collision occurred during the Winter in snow country, will likely all arrive driving on studded snow tires. And they use them because they are safer.

"ccid Anal Prev. 1999 Jan-Mar;31(1-2):125-34.

The effects on accidents of studded tires and laws banning their use: a meta-analysis of evaluation studies.

Elvik R.

Source

Institute of Transport Economics, Oslo, Norway. rune.elvik@toi.no

Abstract

Studies that have evaluated the effects on accidents of studded tires are reviewed. There are two types of evaluation studies with respect to the safety effects of studded tires: (1) Studies of the effect on automobile accident rates of using studded tires; and (2) studies of the effect on accidents of banning the use of studded tires. The results of studies of the effects of studded tires on automobile accident rates are found to vary substantially, depending on the quality of the study design. Recent studies employing multivariate techniques of analysis to control for confounding factors, attribute to studded tires minor declines in automobile accident rates of 5% for snow- or ice-covered roads, 2% for bare roads and 4% for all road surfaces combined. The results of these studies are consistent with the most recent estimates of the effect on accidents of banning studded tires. It is concluded that studded tires probably confer a slight safety benefit during wintertime.

PMID: 10084627 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

* And isn't freedom what a Sportsmobile is all about anyway? How about I'll do everything I can to keep the Leaf driving Bay Area enviro terrorists from banning your Sportsmobile and you support me in my right to drive 5% more safely from Nov 1 to Apr 30 on studded tires?

[carringb]

I found studs to be beneficial is ice with a watery sheen over the top. In all other winter conditions I found just sipping on my M55s to be as good or better. Really the only time the studs help me out is when Portland or the gorge gets a good ice storm. Mountain driving is just fine with the sipes only (I have tried it both ways).

I also disagree with chains causing highway damage. 1) chains aren't needed when the the roads are covered. 2) Speed are much lower. If you look are where the ruts are on the highway after the winter, it's pretty clear it's from cars, and not trucks. In Oregon, studs do not count as a traction device on trucks over 10,000 pounds.

I still have not decided if I will stud my tires this year. But they will be siped no matter what.

[Gnarvan]

One problem with chains in Oregon is that ODOT and their Trooper buddies throw the chain flag for trucks at the sight of the first snow flake. I can't count the times I've driven over Sexton Pass in southern Oregon with chains on where I had to drive completely on the shoulder just to find some snow so the 6 sets of chains I was running didn't get ruined. A tractor trailer weighing in at 60K+ running chains on dry or slushy roads will dig ruts in a hurry.

[BIGVANS]

I run siped, studded tires every winter here in the Northern Idaho Mountains. I put my BFG’s back on if I’m going to take a winter trip, to California or wherever.

[IheartDieselVans]

I think you'll find most every set of studded tires also heavily siped, so at least in my experience it's tough to tell the difference. I think it makes sense that studs may increase your stopping distance on wet pavement, but not nearly as badly as no studs on ice.

The thing about studs is that you can go years without "needing" them. Then suddenly in the 0.5 seconds after someone pulls out in front of you, they pay for themselves many times over. After that you'll probably not need them again for years.

E350, I absolutely love that you cited PubMed! I heart evidence based practice!!

Re: carbide vs. steel studs, I've never seen steel that didn't have carbide. If you look closely you'll see the much smaller carbide bit in the center of the surrounding steel stud. If you've been running them a while, you'll notice the steel has worn much more than the carbide center. At least that's been my experience, but I'm no tire expert.

Another thing, aftter about 5 Alaska winters my studs were pretty worn down, but the tires still had a good amount of tread left. I used a screwdriver to pry out all the studs, and I was left with a nice 'new' pair of summer tires, which should last a few more summers.

I haven't driven my E350 with studs yet, but my Subaru feels like it's on rails with them...I wouldn't even consider going without them. That said, I have driven some (non studded) siped tires and I was extremely impressed with how much better they did than the unsiped. Actually, I was in Les Schuab looking for some snow tires and the guy talked me in to just siping the tires I had. I was almost positive he was selling me some homeopathic snake oil remedy, but since I was poor and it was much cheaper than new tires, I caved in. I was blown away. If I lived in a place with intermittent snow, I think I'd opt for a good siped tire over studs.

[twogone]

I have heard of, but never seen, sheet metal screws in the lugs of MT's... good for slower speed/crawling-on-ice use, take out when the storm passes. Anybody else heard of this? Around here, we get ice storms... ice 1"thick on everything, almost never snow of consequence.

[IheartDieselVans]

Originally Posted by twogone

I have heard of, but never seen, sheet metal screws in the lugs of MT's... good for slower speed/crawling-on-ice use, take out when the storm passes. Anybody else heard of this? Around here, we get ice storms... ice 1"thick on everything, almost never snow of consequence.

An inch of ice and warm (around freezing) temps are about the slipperiest conditions you can find. Actually, packed snow and ice gets fairly tacky below zero. I've studded many pairs of mountain bike tires that way, but never thought to do it to auto tires. I bet it would take a while, but man, if you're dealing with icy hills, it would probably be worth the effort. Ice storms are the worst...

[MTDewX8]

I grew up in OR, and simply dispise visiting family in the winter cause like said before. that the first sight of snow they close the road or require chains.

MT has a dryer snow and chains are not really required on the roads if you have good ties. (this dont count for off road fun)

so I make it a point to buy good tires. so I look for the mountain/snow flake they put on the tires so when I get stopped I should be let go as they are snow rated.

I will say the snow out in the North WET is different from Montana. its wetter so more slippery. but one big factor is most out there dont know how to drive in that snow. (not saying everybody) just more seem to be worst at it. and its those folks that make the hwy patrol do what they do. and OR just likes to control there people. lol

I had Duratraks on my 4 runner that worked good. and now I have some Hankooks on the Yukon.

my van had BFG's so we shall see how they work this winter.

just wish tires didn't cost do dam much

[TexomaPowerboater]

Old thread, but a goody.

I started with Toyo AT's about 5 years ago and I only put around 5K miles a year on it. When new they wandered a lot and were a bit noisy. After 1-2K miles they tracked better, but not great and noise got better. Fast forward to today, I went for a short trip with kido's and had some short gravel roads (probably 600ft) that were really bumpy on the way back......probably should of slowed down more, but must of broken a ply cause the rear tire had a bulge and created a lot of vibration so had to keep it at 60mph to make it home without too much shaking. Glad they didn't come apart completely. This is not a sportsmobile van either, it's a conversion van and weighs right at 6200lbs; may get up to 8000lbs loaded with gear and boat in tow, but didn't have anything but a cooler on my latest trip.

I've had Michelin AT on the truck and after about 3 years and 50000 miles the rubber got brittle and chunks started coming off the tire. Michelin paid warranty claim - 1/2 cost of new set of tires, but I was forever done with Michelin's. IMO they just don't hold up to the TX sun.

I've had good luck with BFG AT tires on all my trucks over the years. The tread is deeper and last longer than anything else out there IMO. The Kevlar also holds up much better to nails or other punctures. I rarely ever had to fix a hole, but it didn't take much to puncture the Toyo's. I will be going with BFG AT's for my next set. Nitto Terra Grappler was also at top of my list, but not after reading reviews about mud performance.

[deserteagle56]

Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater

Old thread, but a goody.

I started with Toyo AT's about 5 years ago and I only put around 5K miles a year on it. When new they wandered a lot and were a bit noisy. After 1-2K miles they tracked better, but not great and noise got better. Fast forward to today, I went for a short trip with kido's and had some short gravel roads (probably 600ft) that were really bumpy on the way back......probably should of slowed down more, but must of broken a ply cause the rear tire had a bulge and created a lot of vibration so had to keep it at 60mph to make it home without too much shaking. Glad they didn't come apart completely. This is not a sportsmobile van either, it's a conversion van and weighs right at 6200lbs; may get up to 8000lbs loaded with gear and boat in tow, but didn't have anything but a cooler on my latest trip.

I've had Michelin AT on the truck and after about 3 years and 50000 miles the rubber got brittle and chunks started coming off the tire. Michelin paid warranty claim - 1/2 cost of new set of tires, but I was forever done with Michelin's. IMO they just don't hold up to the TX sun.

I've had good luck with BFG AT tires on all my trucks over the years. The tread is deeper and last longer than anything else out there IMO. The Kevlar also holds up much better to nails or other punctures. I rarely ever had to fix a hole, but it didn't take much to puncture the Toyo's. I will be going with BFG AT's for my next set. Nitto Terra Grappler was also at top of my list, but not after reading reviews about mud performance.

My van came from Quigley with BFG AT LT285/70R17 tires on ProComp wheels. I've had them on a previous van, and a Jeep Wrangler also and loved them in those applications. Quiet, and good traction, especially in snow. But they didn't hold up under this current van - I kept getting rock breaks right through the tread. After having to buy several new replacement tires I started looking around for alternatives and noticed that all the mine vehicles around here were running Toyo M/Ts so I decided to give them a try. That was exactly 3 years ago and I haven't had a flat since. On the other hand, the Toyo tires are noisier and aren't nearly as good on snow-covered roads. A side benefit of the Toyos was a much more stable feel to the van...with the BFGs aired down that Quigley front end always felt like it was about to go into death wobble. That feeling totally went away with the Toyo tires - very stable; I can let go of the steering wheel and there's no quiver or shiver in the front end. Those super-stiff sidewalls make a difference!