converting e-series full float axle bolt pattern, is it possible?

[JoeH]

Originally Posted by boywonder

...a couple of thoughts......

When I put bushwackers on the van the rear wheels looked really tucked in....so I picked up a pair of used 2" aluminum spacers from someone on expedition portal......so far so good....my rear axle is a FF and the van weighs around 8200#.......you are at 9000+ lbs and you haven't built out your interior?

....with the spacers my track width is pretty close F/R....

If you move to 8 x 170 and buy new wheels, this opens up more options for opening your wallet up even further, like for bigger brakes

The common brake upgrade rotors are F-250/350/450..these are all 8 x 170 so no need to drill for 8 x 6.5 (I have to drill 8 x 6.5 lug holes in my F-450 rotors)

The bigger brakes above fit comfortably (but are shoehorned in there) with 17" wheels.....with 18" wheels you could toss the brakes on from across the room....

..and one more thought.....some years have the rear ABS sensor on the diff pumpkin (I think)....my 2008 has RSC so it has sensors on each wheel....don't know if there is any compatibility issues there.

I'm converting to 08+ bigger brakes here soon but geez the difference in $$ between 17" and 18" wheels is substantial...~$400 for a set of 5. Is it that big a deal to squeeze a 17" wheel on there? The only post I've seen from anyone on this forum indicating that they preferred 18" over 17" has been sheepshagger. Not sure myself. Between rotating weight and wanting a little more sidewall I think I'll still go 17. That, and price. Oh yeah, looks.

Hijack over. For those who don't want to drill out their rotors you can buy 8x6.5 dynatrac rotors from the SMB store that will fit either brake size.

[shenrie]

^^^ not a hijack. rim size is pertinent to this conversation for me.

Originally Posted by TexGX

shenrie,

You rear axial may need some friction additive. Mine was making a really bad noise when turning at low speeds. Added the friction additive and it is gone. The semi floats need this added every once and a while. If you have not changed the diff fluid in awhile, I would do that at the same time.

TexGX

tried adding a bottle of friction modifier, but it changed nothing. i was told that the fluids were fresh upon purchase, but that's unconfirmed.

Originally Posted by boywonder

...a couple of thoughts......

When I put bushwackers on the van the rear wheels looked really tucked in....so I picked up a pair of used 2" aluminum spacers from someone on expedition portal......so far so good....my rear axle is a FF and the van weighs around 8200#.......you are at 9000+ lbs and you haven't built out your interior?

that's the main reason i haven't purchased the flares either. i cant handle the sunk in look. my van is very square right now and visually appealing... to me anyway.

and ya, with the majority of our camping gear in the van it came in at 8980 lbs with me in it. add our bags, the 100lb wife, food/cooler, and whatever toys we chose to play with/on that weekend and our rigs is gonna be skirting 10k before our build out. granted removing 3 bench seats to build will help, but not that much.

Originally Posted by boywonder

....with the spacers my track width is pretty close F/R....

one of my main fears with spacers is that these vans (and most vehicles) are designed to have a more narrow rear end to help with stability. its by design. its painfully obvious in vehicles like the old k5 blazers. i hate the look and want a square stance, but having the Quigley and my already poor steering response, making a move that hinders trackability scares me.

ive read where some people noticed a decrease and read where people noticed zero difference adding the spacers. im not exactly sure why my vans steering is so lackadaisical, but id hate to go in reverse to the mods ive done so far. when i got our rig, it was white knuckle whenever we were over 50 mph, even moreso with a bunch of passengers. now i can one hand it at 85-90. speed limit here is 80 on the interstate and im finding myself on it more and more to access areas that haven't recently burned. i cant in good conscience add a mod that moves me in another direction other than improvement.

Originally Posted by boywonder

If you move to 8 x 170 and buy new wheels, this opens up more options for opening your wallet up even further, like for bigger brakes

The common brake upgrade rotors are F-250/350/450..these are all 8 x 170 so no need to drill for 8 x 6.5 (I have to drill 8 x 6.5 lug holes in my F-450 rotors)

The bigger brakes above fit comfortably (but are shoehorned in there) with 17" wheels.....with 18" wheels you could toss the brakes on from across the room....

17's i might consider, but never 18's id rather have the sidewall and id like to stick with 16's honestly. heavy rigs chew up tires. that's a substantial expense going up in rim size. don't get me wrong, i like the look of the bigger wheels, but just looking at tire replacement in the future. the brakes i have are the 13 or 13.5 rotors. im not sure all the additional costs to go to a 14" rotor is worth it. proper matched rotors and pads, coupled with ss lines can go a long way. ive fuct around with a LOT of brake swaps on our race cars and i know that it can have great results. just not sure 1 or so inchs in this case will be enough to convince me. will likely know soon enough when we get done with the mg conversion weve been working on...

Originally Posted by boywonder

..and one more thought.....some years have the rear ABS sensor on the diff pumpkin (I think)....my 2008 has RSC so it has sensors on each wheel....don't know if there is any compatibility issues there.

both these rear ends have the single sensor on the pumpkin.

looking at bearing replacements between f and e series looks to be different, so i may have answered my own question here

and holy hell is there a lot of sterling rear end options.....

[boywonder]

Originally Posted by JoeH

Is it that big a deal to squeeze a 17" wheel on there?

I'm running 17's with F-450 rotors (14.5" dia) and the stock 2008+ front calipers. It's a very tight fit but works fine.

F-250 rotors (13.5") will fit easy with 17's and the 08+ calipers (the 2008+ calipers are somewhat low profile)

[carringb]

-Full floats can handle adapters no problem. I use 4" adapters on my original Dana 70 as part of the dually conversion. Been on for over 300,000 miles.

-Wider track width improves stability. Downside is you need a few more inches inside clearance when making sharp turns. You'll adjust. We added 2" adapters to my dad's van. Feels the same lightly loaded, but noticeably better when towing a heavy trailer.

-You can probably sell your Dana for more than a Sterling would cost, just because there's so many used Sterlings, and can only be used in Ford pickups. But Dana axles can be used under Chevies and Dodge trucks. Also they get stuffed under jeeps sometimes. But for anything other than a Ford pickup, folks tend to prefer the 8x6.5" bolt pattern.

-You do have to match RSC and non-RSC axles. Kinda. Actually its the speed sensors that matter, RSC came out in the vans way before the pickups. But even non-RSC vans starting in '08 have outboard mounted speed sensors, RSC or not. Pickups stuck with diff mounted sensors on non-RSC models. Even through current models I think. Or at least through 2015.

-Your poor steering is probably a result of not enough caster. But crummy tires or dampers make a huge difference too.

17" wheels will allow for newer brakes rotors. The pre-'05 super duty brakes were only ok. '05+ is much better. I think for Load Range E tires, moving to 17's opens up more options now.

[shenrie]

Originally Posted by boywonder

I'm running 17's with F-450 rotors (14.5" dia) and the stock 2008+ front calipers. It's a very tight fit but works fine.

F-250 rotors (13.5") will fit easy with 17's and the 08+ calipers (the 2008+ calipers are somewhat low profile)

can the 08+ calipers bolt onto my spindles or do they need modified to work? whats the difference between those and the ones I have? substantially larger pads? more pistons??

Originally Posted by carringb

-Full floats can handle adapters no problem. I use 4" adapters on my original Dana 70 as part of the dually conversion. Been on for over 300,000 miles.

-Wider track width improves stability. Downside is you need a few more inches inside clearance when making sharp turns. You'll adjust. We added 2" adapters to my dad's van. Feels the same lightly loaded, but noticeably better when towing a heavy trailer.

appreciate the feedback. it will be a long time before I even get to 300k. I know you (over)use your rig more than any other 10 of us combined, lol. I can get used to the swinging a bit wider in the sharp corners.

Originally Posted by carringb

-You can probably sell your Dana for more than a Sterling would cost, just because there's so many used Sterlings, and can only be used in Ford pickups. But Dana axles can be used under Chevies and Dodge trucks. Also they get stuffed under jeeps sometimes. But for anything other than a Ford pickup, folks tend to prefer the 8x6.5" bolt pattern.

seriously?!? whats that dana worth? its a 3.55 FF axle tag 39 on the sticker inside doorjamb. Also, can anyone tell me how to look for axles on cl? all I was able to locate was a few 9" rear ends poking around. I tried quite a few terms and was surprised at the lack of results.

is my semi float worth anything? if so range?? its a 4.10 lsd axle tag c2.

Originally Posted by carringb

-You do have to match RSC and non-RSC axles. Kinda. Actually its the speed sensors that matter, RSC came out in the vans way before the pickups. But even non-RSC vans starting in '08 have outboard mounted speed sensors, RSC or not. Pickups stuck with diff mounted sensors on non-RSC models. Even through current models I think. Or at least through 2015.

theres a ton of sterling axles, which one should I be looking for? year range, code #?? again my current setup has the one sensor in the center top of the pumpkin. I assume mods would be needed for this rear end to work in the van? is it just shock mounts or is there more involved?

Originally Posted by carringb

-Your poor steering is probably a result of not enough caster. But crummy tires or dampers make a huge difference too.

brand new ko2's and updated rip kit from agile over the summer. im starting to wonder if its my steering box...

Originally Posted by carringb

-17" wheels will allow for newer brakes rotors. The pre-'05 super duty brakes were only ok. '05+ is much better. I think for Load Range E tires, moving to 17's opens up more options now.

would upgrading to the 05+ calipers make a difference on the 13.5 rotors? again, not sure what the upgrade is. more pistons, larger pads??

thanks for all the insight gents. helps a ton!

[expeditionnw]

Just want to ad some food for thought here. If you want a wheel spacer to fail on one of these vans, use an aluminum one.

For any of you currently running aluminum wheel spacers on your 8k+ van, PLEASE replace them with billet steel. There are lots of misnomers floating around about wheel spacer failures. but the fact is, they are not all the same. aluminum fails, billet steel will handle the weight.

Also, if one is going to do the work on replacing the rear axle, you may as well replace with a superduty 10.5 to match the front. The width is the same, and its basically the same work. The sterling is superior in every way, and much easier to find.

[saline]

I found 2 E series FF D60 axles at my local salvage yard here in Grand Junction. I'd recommend poking around some of your local yards there.
The one I got was was a simple swap. The calipers and everything swap right over. No need to even bleed the brakes etc.

[JoeH]

One thing to consider on using the D60 out of a van is the spring perch is the same. Probably not so on the Sterling.

[expeditionnw]

Correct, the superduty axle has a different perch width than the van. But thays a simple task to overcome.

[Jsweezy]

Just to throw another opinion in here about wheels spacer stability. I don't run flares and my wheels are just inside/in line with the body. I have 1.75" spacers on the rear and run stock F250 (2011) wheels. I also have Fox performance series shocks on the rear. My rear end does sway turning hard around corners but not too bad and I am not running any sway bars or anything other than what has to be there.

I dont think wider wheels makes as much of a difference in feel/handling as shocks do. I think if you were to drive the same van, one with wider stance and then again with a skinnier stance but with tuned shocks you would feel better results with the tuned shocks.

OH and as far as where to buy them, Wheeladapter.com .