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Old 10-28-2012, 12:40 PM   #1
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Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

I do not see any SMB's that are 4x4 with a E250 Body and 5.4 engine size. why is that ?
Why is the E350 so much better that E250? and why is the 5.4 engine not ever used and only V10 or Diesel?
thanks Copes
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:01 AM   #2
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

E250 has less carrying capacity than the E350. It's less of difference with the newer vans (starting in '08) but older vans had a bigger spread between the models (E150-E350).

SMB will only convert vans with the 5R110 transmission. They do not stock parts to modify the 4-speed to 4x4. That means the V10 or diesel is required, since you can't get the V8 with the 5-speed in a regular van body.
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #3
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

I have a 2001 E250 with the 5.4l that was converted by Quigley that I re-did with UJoint offroad parts and as the springs are made to order and I used a Full Float F350 rear and Dana 60HD out of a F550 in front I do not worry about a thing. E250 and E350 frams are the same, only the E150 is lighter. I have the 4R100 Trans and you can find the tailshaft conversion for about 150.00 on e-bay but you have to dissasemble the trans to install. You might as well rebuild as long as its apart. Chris at UJoint makes a great kit that is easy to install and you can get 4,6 or 8 inch lifts.

If you find a already converted Van make shure to check the front end as Quigley uses both Dana 44's and 60's and the D44 is at max load when your Van is empty. I have seen D44's under E350's as Quigley builds mostly for traction not Offroad. there are more 4X4 Vans here in alaska than the rest of the US combined. My local Sears Service has 12 in thier Fleet alone and if you go up on the slope there are about 500 spered amongst the different Company's.

There are currently 6 on Anchorage's Craigslist (3 Chevy and 3 Ford) and 1 on Craigslist Fairbanks and a E450 Bus on CL Southeast.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:49 PM   #4
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

I have a '95 E150 with a Quigley Dana 44 front and the stock ford rear. My front was from a period F250 so while I have no hard data I find it difficult to believe that the front axle is over the weight limit with an empty van. Mr Bones, could you share the source? I might be driving a death trap since I do occasionally put people in all the seats and camping gear in the back, which ought to be hopelessly overloading it.

Otherwise, I have not found any reason why you shouldn't do it. You cannot build it up like a full SMB but I also don't want to. I find my van big and heavy enough and would rather keep it a bit more simple. I do use my van off-road and you should ask Jage what the difference is on the trail. Other than the fact that he had a thermostatically controlled heater and was fabulously warm all night....
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #5
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

Dana 44 gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of 3,500 pounds and an output torque rating of 3,460 lb-ft. Ring gear diameter is 8.5 inches, while next-generation axles go up to 8.8 inches. The available gear spreads for the Dana 44 range from 2.72:1 to 5.89:1, and both five- and six-lug versions were used in OE applications.

Dana 60 GAWR as 5,500 lb-ft for a semi-floating axle, while the full-floaters are good for 6,000 to 6,500 pounds. Both versions have a torque output rating of 5,500 lb-ft. The Dana 60's ring gear is 9.75 inches in diameter, and the available gear spread ranges from 3.31:1 to 7.17:1. There are both low- and high-pinion designs, and six- and eight-lug wheel bolt patterns

Read more: http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles ... z2AjjWaW6G

These Ratings are for the Rear and fronts are lighter duty and even the "Reverse Rotation" D60 front is lighter then a Standard Rotation.

My quigley had the D44 when I got it as well as the Wonderful Quigley steering. I swapped to the D60HD out of a F550 that I converted to SRW. The D60HD was only used in the F550 and came with a thicker axle tube and 35 spline inner axles (regular D60 had 30 spline at the diff) and also came with 14" rotors and bigger calipers The F350 with the "Big rotors were only slightly over 13" and used the same Calipers as the F250. I swapped to a High steer conversion and have zero bump steer and do not even have a steering damper on it.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:50 PM   #6
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

My van as I got it:


My Van Today:


It is next to a Buddies Quigley (his has a D60) and yes he has size envy. The thing below the bumper is my Plow mount and comes off when the snow goes.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:53 PM   #7
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

Bones----that is insane !!! I love it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:39 AM   #8
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by copescobra
I do not see any SMB's that are 4x4 with a E250 Body and 5.4 engine size. why is that ?
Why is the E350 so much better that E250? and why is the 5.4 engine not ever used and only V10 or Diesel?
thanks Copes
I have seen new Quigleys offered with 5.4L, even in the E150 chassis. The 4x4 conversion adds a lot of weight. A top and interior add weight. Add it up and many of the vans on this forum are over 11,000 lb. gross. You either need a big motor, low gearing, or both to haul that up a mountain.

But the real reasons for a big diesel motor would require psychiatric examination...
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:21 PM   #9
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

Dana 44 gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of 3,500 pounds and an output torque rating of 3,460 lb-ft. Ring gear diameter is 8.5 inches, while next-generation axles go up to 8.8 inches. The available gear spreads for the Dana 44 range from 2.72:1 to 5.89:1, and both five- and six-lug versions were used in OE applications.

Dana 60 GAWR as 5,500 lb-ft for a semi-floating axle, while the full-floaters are good for 6,000 to 6,500 pounds. Both versions have a torque output rating of 5,500 lb-ft. The Dana 60's ring gear is 9.75 inches in diameter, and the available gear spread ranges from 3.31:1 to 7.17:1. There are both low- and high-pinion designs, and six- and eight-lug wheel bolt patterns


So Bones, in other words, driving an E150 with a Dana 44 (6-7K pounds) is about the same as driving an E350 SMB with a Dana 60 (10-11K pounds)? Haven't heard too many complaints about collapsing front axles on the forum...
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:18 PM   #10
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Re: Downside to E250 5.4 conversion to 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by witoke
Dana 44 gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of 3,500 pounds and an output torque rating of 3,460 lb-ft. Ring gear diameter is 8.5 inches, while next-generation axles go up to 8.8 inches. The available gear spreads for the Dana 44 range from 2.72:1 to 5.89:1, and both five- and six-lug versions were used in OE applications.

Dana 60 GAWR as 5,500 lb-ft for a semi-floating axle, while the full-floaters are good for 6,000 to 6,500 pounds. Both versions have a torque output rating of 5,500 lb-ft. The Dana 60's ring gear is 9.75 inches in diameter, and the available gear spread ranges from 3.31:1 to 7.17:1. There are both low- and high-pinion designs, and six- and eight-lug wheel bolt patterns


So Bones, in other words, driving an E150 with a Dana 44 (6-7K pounds) is about the same as driving an E350 SMB with a Dana 60 (10-11K pounds)? Haven't heard too many complaints about collapsing front axles on the forum...
There have been a couple of reports on this forum of rear D60SF axles breaking. You can imagine what happens to the wheel when the axle flange breaks off.

Mike
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