Front Brake Upgrade Makes Soft Pedal - Page 3

mgmetalworks · 04-05-2018, 09:35 AM

Are they bench bleeding the master cylinder correctly? Seems plausible but not super likely to have one new MC fail but two in a row is suspect to me.

Simple process to bleed a MC... make short lines coming out of the MC ports and route them into the reservoir (submerged in fluid). Pump MC piston until no more bubbles. Then when installing, don't put any pressure on the piston and get the lines installed quickly.

another thing... if you have an ABS module and it hasn't been run through the service bleed process, you should try that too. There is a routine in the IDS software that puts the ABS module into the service bleed mode then follow the procedure in the service manual.

rallypanam · 04-05-2018, 10:05 AM

So, this raises the question.. where did they get the master cylinder (or 2)?

Ford factory unit, remanufactured, cheapest rebuild they could fine?

ShuttlePilot · 04-05-2018, 10:09 AM

Hi Jage, Sorry to hear this is one of those projects that refuses to be signed off. Assuming the $$$ shop is telling you the truth that they confirmed there are no internal leaks on the bench. Then assume that master is "good". My thoughts are to confirm it is the correct master cylinder for your van. I did a quick search just using my van (yes I have an addiction for problem solving) a search on auto parts websites show a variety of cylinders depending on if van has speed control(IDK) or single or dual rear wheels. It seems the difference is the nose length that probably fits different vacuum boosters. I excluded hydroboost as you don't have that. BUT When I search the more accurate FordParts.com it appears there is only one for all configurations. I just find all that odd. FYI FordParts allows search by VIN so it should be very accurate if different parts were used i.e. based on build date, location, configuration. I would recommended looking into confirming you have the correct master as I have had issues with master cylinders on "custom" vehicles that would bolt up to a booster but had the wrong push rod length which wouldn't line up the valving correctly in the cylinder.

Last terrifying question do any of the parts say Doorman on them.

Shoot, bring your van down to The Springs and we'll swap master cylinders in the driveway and see if that cures it. I'm kidding, kind of, done that sort of thing before

- Eric

arctictraveller · 04-05-2018, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jage

So of course the first thing he does is by-the-book cap all the brake line ports from the master cylinder and the pedal still creeps to the floor.

At least you now know where the problem is. Once again, logical troubleshooting rather than simply throwing expensive parts at it in hopes of a solution turns out to be the way to go. The Ford factory manual has great detail on trouble shooting most of the systems, and will pinpoint exactly where a problem is, just like the last shop did, rather than taking the easy route of just replacing something that seems suspect and charging accordingly. Hopefully you can recover some of your money spent on the un-needed parts. Here's to a rock hard brake pedal.

oldbonesclimber · 04-05-2018, 02:58 PM

Jage,
If it we're me I'd let the $$$ Shop fix it but have them agree to only charge you if it does. If it does , take the other shop to small claims and get your money back. They will have a hard time defending themselves. You will have the courts on your side. Hope you get it solved.
PS Have them get a NEW FORD MC. Can't be that much more compared to your grief.

I really HATE Incompetence. and the cover up.

carringb · 04-05-2018, 04:09 PM

Is shop #1 affiliated with AAA or Napa Auto Care, or any other national affiliation? If yes, you can probably start a warranty claim with the affiliated company, and have new $$$-shop take care of it under warranty.

jage · 05-04-2018, 03:41 PM

So after weeks of runaround from the first shop I took it to the second $$$ shop that said the MC tested bad. They put a third brand new MC in and did a whole fluid flush and about 40 minutes ago I just went and picked it up. I asked, it's good right it's done that fixed it? And they said, yeah took it for a test drive it stops fine and everything. Paid my bill, got in, started it up, pushed on the pedal and it's softer than ever. Right to the floor.

They're like well it stops fine and I'm like yeah there are freaking brakes on there for an F550, the brakes would stop a loaded dumptruck that has never been the problem.

Needless to say I'm a little bit angry. We've topped $3000 in parts and labor and that's after the actual cost and install of the brake upgrade kit. All that's gotten me is worse than ever. I'm maybe more than a little angry, like I'm out of my gourd, what the heck is going on.

I left the van with the $$$ shop, I don't even know and didn't ask what they're going to do just that they are going to look at it first thing Monday. I'm starting to worry about an upcoming trip, I mean forget that I was going to spend the rest of today and this weekend packing but I'm now wondering if I'm even going to be able to take the van back to Indiana this year. It's literally been offline for months and I've missed a trip to Palo Duro and several spring camping opportunities, but going back to Indiana is a not optional- we have a rented house and plane tickets locked in and bringing the girls halfway across the country in the van is a pretty crucial piece of the trip.

I don't know what else to say, I'm mortified. I've lost hope. I think this might have killed the van for me.

arctictraveller · 05-04-2018, 04:02 PM

So, the pedal goes right to the floor, and the shop said it's fine? WTF, are they nuts? I don't blame them for thinking it's the master cyl though, that's normally the problem when the pedal slowly sinks to the floor and there are no external leaks. If you not loosing fluid, something is releving the pressure that the master creates. Hoses can swell up like a balloon, that holds the small amount of fluid the master moves. Then there is the anti lock brake manifold, that somehow reduces pressure on individual calipers. I have no idea how it does that, or where the fluid is stored when it does, but I suspect the issue is related to that. Since everything was fine prior to the upgrade, it still seems like air, but I'll be dammed if I know how to bleed it any better than a shop using a power bleeder. What a bummer, I feel your pain. I was just about to head out in mine, and on start up, it dropped out a cylinder. Fortunately, it set a code for cyl 4. I wish it was that easy with your brakes. Hopefully they can get to the bottom of the problem on Monday...........

ShuttlePilot · 05-04-2018, 08:53 PM

Oh man.

I'm not saying that you should do this but at this point I'd put the old brakes and junk back on. Removing the variable of the new brakes. Then I would know the issue is truly somewhere in the van or it's the new front brakes. If the van is OK on the old brakes then go on the trip and deal with it after I got back.

I realize this is a crazy proposal but that's what I would do. Just to be fair I've been down to the bare tube in my Dynatrack twice now so I'm almost NHRA quick at it

. Here's me changing the ball joints in a friends driveway a thousand miles from home.

Let me know if I can help

- Eric

boywonder · 05-05-2018, 10:10 AM

Has either shop bled or investigated/troubleshot the ABS module?? Others above have mentioned that this could be an issue.....seems like it's not the MC.....