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Old 06-01-2013, 07:09 PM   #1
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Quigley swaybar removal

Hi guys,

This has probably been discussed, but I can't find it...
I have a 2000 EB50 SMB, quigley 4x4. ~9700 lbs
I have E load rated BFGs. I have noticed that I have to go VERY slow on rougher sections of trails due to the stiffness of the front end. Granted, my point of reference is my Tacoma, but still, I would think it may help to remove the sway bar.

Have any of you done this? Since the Quigleys do not have a "disconnect" option, I would have to completely remove it. How does the vehicle drive on the freeway after removal... will it still handle ok at speed?

And if I DO choose to remove it, is it a royal pain to line the sway bar back up for reinstallation after removal?

Thanks for any info you may be able to give me.

Cheers,

Martin
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:54 PM   #2
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

I can't help you with the removal, but I honestly don't think it will help. Take a close look and you will see how little suspension travel the Quigley has at the front. I think mine bottoms out on every bump.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:38 PM   #3
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

I'm with Anzac on this. With stock springs a Quigley only has an inch or two of available front wheel travel. Removing the sway bar may get the front end a little more responsive but you hit the bump stop so soon I'm not sure it would make any difference.

There are threads here on partial solutions including longer, heavier duty front springs to raise the front an extra 1.5-2 inches. That, trimming the hard rubber bump stop or replacing it with a softer one from a Ford truck will get you a bit more range. After that it might be worth experimenting. I last looked at my sway bar with a view to undoing it for off-road a couple of years ago but I will crawl under it again and see what might be involved.

Then there are many, many threads here on more comprehensive solutions to the problem of the Quigley front end, mostly involving something called "U-Joint Off-Road" or some such....
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:04 AM   #4
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

These guys are right! Removing the sway bar won't help with the travel. Do you have good shocks on it? If you don't have Bilsteins try them. The Quigleys re use the stock sway bar, it comes off easily if you want to experiment. Remove 4 bolts holding it to the frame and pull it forward.
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:02 AM   #5
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

I don't care what shocks you have, or if the sway bar is there or not - the problem with most 4X4 E series Van conversions is they have very little "bump travel" and bottom out way too easily. The real problem is in the E series Van's frame cross member just above the front axle. It interferes with the differential on the front axle - all conversions modify the cross member by removing significant material from the front lip and then reinforcing it by welding on additional braces, out of the way of the differential, to gain some of the strength back. This is necessary to get some bump travel without lifting the Van too high.

If you think about it, the axle can only cycle so high before it hits the modified cross member in the fully bottomed out position - at that point it has no more bump travel. Put in a spring (springs hold up the vehicle, not shocks by the way) that lifts the vehicle 1.5 to 2.0 inches as Quigley and Quadvan do and all you have is 1.5 to 2.0 inches of bump travel - to get more you have to go higher and there is the trade off.

A higher spring rate coil spring at the same ride height could help as well as stiffer compression valving in the shocks as it will take a greater force (bigger bump) to blow through the same bump travel.

When using a solid front axle like a Dana 60, it really does not matter what conversion system you use (Quigley, Quadvan - both coil sprung, or Sportsmobile, Ujoint - both leaf sprung) the limiting factor is the axle and cross member interference and the only way to get more bump travel is by lifting - putting more distance between the axle and the cross member, which means a higher Van.
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:37 PM   #6
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

I agree; not much travel there (and I've got a Salem Kroger, same cross member, leaf springs).

But it sort of depends on the symptom the OP is experiencing. If the van had Pro Truck suspension and travel it could eat up about anything while you did watch repair in the back, of course, but there are some mitigations short of that.

I've driven my van with stock sway, both before and after 4x4 conversion, with both Ford's OEM front end and my now leaf sprung front end, and with both Hellwig and now IPD/Roadmaster sways.

I would not wanna drive this on the street without a decent front sway bar. Doable, for sure, but if you're doing a bunch of higher speed windy roads it will significantly impede performance, and it makes crosswind travel much worse.

Offroad, unhitching it won't get you rock crawling articulation or the ability to eat up bumps with impunity, but what it does help is on the side-to-side whipping you can get on even moderately bumpy roads, especially if the bumps are spaced just right (wrong?) so that you get a resonance going. Better shocks help too. Not a panacea, but I definitely noticed a difference with just the front unhooked. And only at slower speeds.

Still haven't found a better solution for undoing them than manually bolting and unbolting, however.
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Old 06-14-2013, 10:04 AM   #7
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

Thanks guys... some good info. I have bilsteins on there and they are relatively new. I don't know if I want to consider raising the van due to the inevitable hit to fuel economy and more importantly, I have two big ass dogs (150 lbs) that will have a hard time jumping in if it is any higher.

I may experiment with pulling the swaybar off on a longer trail. My main concern is the whipping side to side. It seems like that would be a good way to end up flipped over if I hit a bad rut since the body doesn't stay level. And I am taking it slow, by the way.

I am just getting used to this rig, but it is very apparent from the get go that I have to be MUCH more conservative about my trail route choice than I thought. The majority of my trail experience is with my Tacoma and an FJ40.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:24 PM   #8
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

Bringing this thread is back from the dead...

08 Quigley here. I was wondering if anyone had come up with a sway bar quick-disconnect on Quigleys. As mine is set up, just taking the nuts off would be a chore because there is so little room.

I completely agree with with the problem of the van whipping on rough terrain, which can get pretty bad. That's what I'm trying to address. Not expecting to get any more wheel travel.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:46 AM   #9
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by photographix
Bringing this thread is back from the dead...

08 Quigley here. I was wondering if anyone had come up with a sway bar quick-disconnect on Quigleys. As mine is set up, just taking the nuts off would be a chore because there is so little room.

I completely agree with with the problem of the van whipping on rough terrain, which can get pretty bad. That's what I'm trying to address. Not expecting to get any more wheel travel.
Correctly valved shocks will all but eliminate that problem.

P.s. We don't even run sway bars on our conversions - front or rear, don't need them.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:16 PM   #10
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Re: Quigley swaybar removal

Shocks might not be enough IMHO.

The job of sway bars is to transfer weight from side to side. Depending on your springs, and shocks as you note, that can actually ADD to the damping that the shocks have to accomplish. Why? because the force compressing one spring is transmitted to another, effectively doubling the spring rate (in an ideal theoretical exaggeration).

This is great when you corner too fast on the road, or in the wind, cuz you wanna diminish the loading on the outside wheels and spread that force to the inside wheels; it essentially levels the vehicle. Rather than the plane of the wheels being at an angle to the body, they're levelish. So you get more traction; on the track I can adjust my rear if I'm getting wheel spin on the inside rear and go faster, and even eliminate some understeer in the front, etc.

But offroad, we want the plane of the wheels, or individual wheels, to be at an angle to the body. Doing their own thing. Off road is not flat. But the sways try to make it flat, so the only thing it can move, you in the body, gets whipped back and forth every time a wheel drops off a rock. And there's a lot of power in those springs, the weight of the van, and the inherent flex in the sway bar. Look at an offroad racer: the wheels are all over the place; the top of the truck is like it's going down I5. So offroad with sways you get really bashed, and compensating with shocks or springs to account for the force of the sway is sorta cart before horse. You just don't need it offroad, hence disconnects.

Whether you need it on road is another issue. I do; like almost any suspension issue it's a part of a system, and as noted above you can tweak other components to adjust for changes in others. On my van, crosswinds and cornering become scary with sways disconnected, and for me they're the easiest fix for that, given the tradeoffs. YMMV. You'll see high lifted jeeps with lots of travel and softish setups using sways they put on for the road; otherwise, every time they corner hard on a flat road they get the opposite problem: now the jeep's wheels are flat but the body is tilted crazy to the outside of the turn.

You could try disconnecting just the front and see how that goes. I looked around, but never saw a quick disconnect aftermarket part that would be suitable for something as heavy as our vans. Dunno what SMB does about theirs. Best to mess with one component at a time, since it's all linked, and works as a system; you might be happy without it permanently. And you are always gonna have tradeoffs; it's just what you consider most important. I'm more concerned with highway issues; you might be more concerned with the Rubicon.

Rob
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