Roll Cage

[carringb]

Originally Posted by bluedog225

PS - the stock roof is designed to support 1.5x GVWR.


Which GVWR? The GVWR is sometimes upgraded due to the addition of upgraded suspension components and brakes. I'd appreciate a citation on that info.

Tom

I re-read it and it turns out it's 1.5x empty weight. Since SMB is a 2nd stage manufacturer, they must comply as empty from the factory. The requirement indicates a 9G load, which may not represent all rollovers.
Raised roofs must also comply.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...cfr571.216.pdf

It should be noted that there is talk to raising the requirement for cars to 2.6x. Not sure what that will mean for vans.


Ambulance and medical transport vans have an even tougher requirement, but I don't remember what it is.

[Aldercrest]

Attached are some photos of a rollover in November 2009 near Baker City, OR on I-84. An E-350 extended van (not a Sportsmobile) with 16 occupants. 14 were ejected. 3 died. This stretch of highway is basically straight, but it was 5:20am, icy, and the van had been traveling all night. Makes a guy want to drive conservatively and wear a seatbelt. And maybe a roll cage isn't a bad idea.

[jage]

It looks terrible but all the SMB rollovers that I've heard of had no fatalities, and the one in Mexico IIRC the one person who was badly injured was thrown from the van (meaning no seatbelt). In that case a roll cage isn't going to help you anyway.

Even if the van comes away looking like post recycled aluminum, all I care about is that the occupants come out alive. Considering that a roll bar may actually hinder rescue efforts, and if the van ever turtles offroad I don't expect to be able to right it and drive away, I think a roll cage is excessive at best in an SMB.

[j.whitbread]

http://www.suv-rollovers.com/15-passeng ... llover.cfm

In this article, the NHTSA guidelines for 15 passenger vans contradict the very design and common use of SMB.

All the images of rollovers I saw on Google images had crushed in roofs.

A double roll bar from side to side at the B-pillar to maintain head space would protect the front passengers for sure. Sorta like the old roll bar in a pickup truck bed idea. You can always do more.

[carringb]

Just to add some perspective:

NHTSA

Only 14 percent of the fatally injured were restrained

Between 1990 and 2002, there were 1,111 fatalities in 15 passenger vans. Since 2001, vans have become steadily safer form total fatality standpoint. In 2006, there were 23 rollover fatalities in all 15 passenger vans, so chances are only 3 or 4 victims of those were restrained. There were 39,400 traffic fatalities total in 2008.

In 2008, there were 501,262 fifteen passenger vans on the road. The odds of being killed while seatbelted in a van is less than the chance of dying from tripping and falling (on the same level), which kills over 500 people every year.


BTW - I'm a little suspicious that a adding a structure strong enough to actually add strength to the roof of a van, may just raise the CG enough to make rollovers more likely.

[SMBDAD]

I would like to add that a Roll over accident just doenst happen out of the blue. Driver error, sleep, over correction. Now CG. Yes the SMB adds lots of wieght to the van, but lots of the wieght that is added is down by the frame.

How to improve stability. Wider E rated tires. Upgrade springs. The springs that are on a normal 15 passenger van stink. They are not adequate for the wieght that goes into it when loaded. This causes sway, tipping. With a stock van all the wieght added, passengers and gear, is put high raising the CG.

[TwoVans]

Ok, I don't know if this will help, as this is one of those topics that seems to generate pretty strong opinions. But, here it goes...

First, if I didn't thing the van was basically safe on its own I wouldn't put my family in it. Ever. Second, I think everyone would agree that by far the biggest safety feature of any vehicle is the driver. No engineered safety feature will do more to prevent a disastrous outcome than a sound decision to avoid needing the engineering miracle in the first place. Finally, certainly the biggest bang for the buck (as far as safety goes) is to ensure that everything that is on the van and everything that is added to the van is in good working order, well maintained, and properly used vice adding something crazy in an effort to overcome a lack thereof.

I haven't ever been in a roll-over (slow or fast). The safety would tell you I'm luck to be allive. After all, I drive a lifted Jeep. That thing was a rollover disaster waiting to happen before I lifted it - according to them... I have no intention of ever rolling the van. After all, I'm the best driver the world has ever known.

That being said, stuff happens. Sometimes through a momentary lack in judgement or attention. Sometimes through a freak mechanical failure. Sometimes through a force of nature. Whatever.

I intend to wheel the van. Ok, maybe not like the Jeep, but my experience with the Jeep has been that the more capable it is the more I have used the capability. Again, I haven't rolled it. However, the closest I've ever come to rolling it happened on a no-name obstacle that I really hadn't given a second thought. It wasn't on anything crazy. If it had gone over, I wouldn't have gone end over end or anything. So, like I said, I've seen stuff happen.

So, I'm not trying to put my kids in a safety bubble. I'm just trying to put a little more strength in a place I think could use it in the event we end up dirty side up.

If we do go end over end, I won't be wishing I had built a stronger cage. I'll be hoping for a little help from above.

Ok, I'm off the soap box. I just read what I wrote. Something is missing. Oh, I know - Beer. These discussions are so much better over Beer. I gotta get my van and meet you guys on the trail!

[jage]

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see someone put a roll cage in a Sportsmobile, or any van for that matter. The only person I think remotely might need it is UJoint.

[bluedog225]

While I'd also like to see a roll bar, I have to agree about the driver factor. Interesting point-the Nissan 350z and the Infinity G35 are the same car. The G35 is about $5-10,000 more expensive.

The G35 is one of the top 3 safest cars in terms of deaths per million miles driven and the 350z is one of the worst 3. (11 deaths versus 193 deaths). The only difference is the driver (youngsters verses older drivers).

http://www.leftlanenews.com/iihs-study- ... icles.html

Having said that (and having never had an accident), I was driving my SMB over xmas in winds of 50-70 and dropping a couple of wheels off the road was a real possibility, careful or not. It takes a lot of discipline to bounce along until you can slow down enough to safely get back on the road.

Tom

[TwoVans]

Ok, my dreams of a full cage are going to have to be put on hold. The realities of my wallet are setting in.