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Old 05-14-2011, 03:00 PM   #1
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Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

Sorry for a new Wheel/Tire thread but, after researching threads I just can't bring it home and figure out how I get the right wheels and tires for my 2008 Quigley 4x4.

I did read the posts I could and am thinking that Toyo Open Country ATs on some new silver rims (not black because my partner wants em silver.) are what I want. I like the look of the Mojave wheels. I have figured out I cant just walk in and buy those some where, I have to order wheels online (that was news to me.) Size wise for tires it seems from what I have been reading that something like a 285/70-17 is rising to the top as likely for me.

So, how do I know for sure I am getting the right size? Currently, my van came with 17 inch rims, and Hancook Dynapro AS size LT 245/70R17. They look undersized but, I wanted to use them for a couple years since I had paid for them. They may still have some life in them but, one is leaking regularly and I have the cashflow to get myself upgraded as a Bday gift to myself.

I live on a dirt road that gets rutted. I drive through east coast ice and snow all winter. I do not go offroad. This is my daily driver.


So, I think step one is ordering some 17 inch wheels. Then I can worry about the tires. So, any advice on how to determine what I need (or even recommendations on other brand wheels you might think are better are welcome.) There is no advice too obvious, I am self proclaimed ignorant in this area. Thanks gang.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:57 PM   #2
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

Your local tire shop of choice can't get Mojave's? Of course they're not silver so that might not be an issue anyway. You can get mounted balanced tires and rims online, but I only used that for price matching- still if you're getting the wheels, why not get the tires?

My wheels turned out to be more bling than I wanted, just because the center caps are so chrome. I'm probably going to murder them out, but something along similar lines might solve the chrome/black debate.

This is an excellent tool, I use it all the time to interpret tire sizes: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

285/*/* is a little wide for 7" wide rims, but that's what I run on my F250. SMB4x4s standard is 285mm wide, and the mojaves that are standard are 8" wide rims. I'm a fan of bulge, so I wouldn't go 9", but I don't think that's bad (the Moto Metals only come 17x9..)

Take everything the tire shop tells you with a grain of salt too- when price checking one place swore I'd need a $50/wheel centering kit and the rims they were pricing didn't require it for the vans... sheesh. Otherwise I'd say look through the galleries for a combo you like on a van and try to track what they are. I have a list somewhere if you like the Moto Metals... OR of course I've got these totally sweet hubcaps you can have:
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:28 PM   #3
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

For what its worth because I have a salem kroger 4X4 conversion:

17 in tires; I just went from 285/70 to 285/75 Toyo Open Country A/T to go from 2 ply sides to 3 ply sides. It all looks the same to me. I love the tire calc. that Jage uses. My rims are pro comp 17X9 style 8107. I, too, think some silver trim looks better than all black.

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:31 AM   #4
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

Jage & Angel, thanks for the thoughts. It answers some questions and, of course, raises more.

Using the calculator does help me get how much larger the tires will be. Thanks.

I have called a couple local tire shops and visited a Mavis discounter too (just cause it's close to me.) All have basically indicated they'll sell me tires but they tell folks to buy wheels online. Now, there is one more local shop here near me that I will call Monday to see if they will indeed sell me wheels. They are a little more home grown/ma & pop so may go further for me. That would help since I need some guidance on this. Even if it weren't the cheapest solution at least I wouldn't end up ordering something that won't fit.

I want to know though - is it as simple as picking some style in a 17 inch rim to replace my current 17 inch ones? OR do I also have to know bolt pattern? And now you guys are saying 7, 8, 9 inch. Okay - what does THAT refer to. (see, told you I don't get this.)

Angel mentioning 285/75/17 had me recheck my handwritten notes and that was the size I MEANT to say was what I'm guessing is right for me. (goal: more appropriately sized tires for my wheel wells, a little 'cooler' looking. And, that will handle highway, dirt road and snow. Which I'm thinking AT does.)

Jage, you mention bulge, I think you mean tires that get that aggresive husky look - I guess cause they seem to bulge out from the rims? I agree that's a good look but, don't follow what options make that happen.

So - What other specs do I need to know to order wheels beyond that I just want some 17 inch rims?
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:05 AM   #5
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

7, 8 and 9" are referring to rim width. The way the tire number breaks down:

285/75/17 E

285 = tire width in mm (11.22")
75 = percentage of width which is sidewall height (rim to tread) (.75*11.22" = 8.42")
17 = rim size diameter (17")
E = load range (you want E, D at a minimum)

So the tire in this case is close to 8.4"+17"+8.4" = 33.8"

Manufacturer's specs differ, so this might be an actual 33.1" in Michelin and a 34.4" in Toyo (some mfgs list actual size).

But essentially you have an 34x11" tire. With an 11" wide tire and a 7" rim, you have more width bulging than an 11" wide tire on a 9" wide rim.

Yes you also need to know your bolt pattern. 2008 Quigley should be 8 on 170mm or "SuperDuty" pattern, but I'd call Quigley and ask to verify... just to be sure. 17s fit, so you know 17s or larger should work.

So, you can get 18" rims and with a 285/70/18 tire and have almost exactly the same overall size- basically less height to the sidewall.

Based on Twogone's fit of my 305/70/16's I'd be surprised if 285/75/17s fit on your rig, but maybe Quigley has grown since 95... if you want tight and don't mind a little rub or a bumper trim they might.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:20 AM   #6
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

And then there is backspacing. Did we talk about backspacing yet? So your rim is 9" wide, and you have 4.5" of backspacing, this means the actual face of the back of the rim, where it meets your axle face is exactly in the center of the wheel.

Decrease backspacing (3" bs) and it pushes the wheel out, the face drops back in the rim. Increase and the wheel comes in (6" bs) and the face goes outward. This affects the radius of your front wheels, meaning rub- increase backspacking and you rub your control arms, decrease and your tire swings into the fender.

Luckily there aren't too many options, and unless you want your tires sticking out like a Stomper it's probably not something you need to worry about- however, before ordering check that the backspacing is 1/2 or a little less (within an inch I'd say).
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:01 PM   #7
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

I pulled these comments from a few of my previous posts, so there are some repeats in here. I think your van was being built in Indy about the same time as mine.

I am using BFG ATKO 265/70/17 and without trimming the plastic on the front bumper, I get just a little rubbing even with this size. I think if I went with the 285, I would have to either lift the front end, or do some minor fender work. For what I do, the 265s are fine and haven't let me down yet. Quigley doesn't recommend any lift kits, of course, due to legal concerns about testing of rollover, etc.

I also have an 08 Quigley. As you probably know, the wheels use an 8x170 pattern. That caused much confusion when I bought the new wheels and tires as the dealer couldn't believe they were 17" either. I wasn't able to find a wheel I liked that had zero backspacing either (that's what Ford recommends for the F350) and went with 40 mm (1.5") spacing wheels. I think this contributes to the tires rubbing the plastic trim under the factory chrome bumpers in sharp turns. SMB trims the plastic on their conversions, but I haven't done mine yet.

Quigley recommends you use stock Ford F350 offset wheels. These are fairly flat (not dished). The Ford specs call for a nominal inset of 40mm (1.57"). You have a hard time finding nice looking wheels except from Ford that meet those specs. I went with some American Racing wheels, but if I understand the specs, they have an offset of 0 and therefore stick out about 1.5" further from the wheel wells than stock. They look OK with the bush whackers and so far with 45,000 miles, no problems yet. A little more aggressive look would be nice, but it wasn't worth the effort to me.


Part No. Size Offset Backside Bolt Circle
AR1727870 17" x 8" 0 4.5 8x170

AMERICAN BAJA POLISHED
(Series AR172)

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Old 05-15-2011, 02:42 PM   #8
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

17" rims aren't as popular as they were several years ago because of the trend of larger diameter wheels. Most domestic light truck manufacturers now come stock with 18" or 20" rims. As a result, the tire manufacturers seem to cater more to the 16" (the old universal standard), 18", or 20" sizes. You have to run at least a 17" rim or larger to clear the bigger brake calipers used on 2007+ Quigleys.

I must have an unusal Quigley because I'm running 315/70-17 tires with absolutely no rubbing. The suspension hasn't been modified. The only thing needed for them to fit was to trim the lower plastic bumper valence and the end of the chrome factory bumper (which is hidden by the valence).

Ford recommends a 0 offset rim, not 0 backspacing (see figure). My rims are 17"x9" with 5.25" backspacing and 6 mm offset. I bought them from a Ford dealership that installed them on new pickup trucks as part of upgrade packages.

More tire and less rim usually equals more driving comfort but less precise handling. My van weighs 8,000 lbs (diesel with van conversion interior - no SMB upgrades) and it handles pretty darn well for what it is - but a sports car she is not! I'll take more rubber cushion any day...

Regarding tire bulge, many tire shops won't install a tire on a rim that is not within the manufacturer's specified width range. For instance, BFG recommends a rim 8.5" to 10" wide for a 315/70 tire and one 7.5" to 9" wide for a 285/70 sized tire. So the liability conscious shops won't install 33" tires on factory Ford 7" rims.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:32 PM   #9
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchfoot
My rims are 17"x9" with 5.25" backspacing and 6 mm offset.
I have a problem with those figures. It may be my math is faulty.

17x9. Wheel center should be a 4.5". 5.25" backspacing means the wheel has 0.75" offset.

0.75" = 19mm

How do you have a 9" wide wheel, 5.25" backspacing and 6mm offset? Could it be 16mm offset and the wheel a little more than 9" wide?

Mike
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:24 PM   #10
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Re: Too Ignorant to pick Wheels/Tires

I can't fault your logic Mike. I wrote the info directly off the wheel box.... I didn't measure the rims before the tires were mounted so I can't doublecheck the width.
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