Twitchy Steering

[capnjim]

An email from Todd Quigley follows. I'm going to give it some time, and consider a sway bay, and maybe a steering box adjustment. Tomorrow I'm driving 600 miles. I'll give you an update when I arrive. BTW I really appreciated Todd's quick response. Here's his email.

Jim,

I do have a few things to point out to you, but at the same time would like to assure you that we had several people test drive your unit here and they all felt it was a comfortable driving unit. However we are quite accustomed to driving different 4x4 vehicles. The following are a few things to consider:

1. Your unit has quite a bit of overhang beyond the rear wheels. This tends to give you an rudder type of affect on your front end, the back has input to the front like a rudder on a ship. This will take time to get use to, typical of any type of vehicle with a long overhang.
2. You have added wider tires about a 0.5" per tire. Wider tires tend to grab the ruts of the road which could add to your sensation of a quick response.
3. The steering will take some time to "loosen" as you rack up the miles (5 - 8k miles). The components like most new things will take some time to "break in".
4. Ford's F-Series steering is designed to give you a quicker response. The tie rod ends are not a true "ball joint" style, they do not swivel as a round ball would. Ford designed this steering to be a quick response more of a two way travel, back and forth. That is why they went away from the ball joint style of tie rod end. With a ball joint style you will get more play because you have more directions of travel. Again this will tend to loosen as you add miles to your unit.
5. We have loosened the steering box to allow more play on a few units for our customers until the components themselves loosened over time (5 - 8k miles). It is not recommended to do more than a quarter turn at a time and a qualified tech should be doing the work. Once you find a tech have him call Amy for our procedures and instructions.

I am happy to hear that you enjoy your Quigley 4x4. I hope the above information will help give you some more insight into the performance of your vehicle. If you have any questions let me know. My suggestion would be to rack up the miles, if possible, and see if the issue persists. You are more then welcomed to try the steering box option, but I advise you to have your tech contact us before he does the work.

Thank You,
Todd Quigley
Application's Engineer

[capnjim]

Hey Guys,

Last week I had Airlift 5000 air bags installed on my rear axle. It made a HUGE impact. The front tires now seem more planted to the road with much less sway out back. The steering feels more natural now. The shop that did the work did screw up the job but I'm getting another shop to fix the problem next week. If you take a look at the photo you'll see that the bag is deformed because the bracket wasn't installed straight. A careless mistake. Anyway I'll get it fixed by a more experienced shop. Here's the shot

[j.whitbread]

I can see where this option would really serve your needs. Did u get the whole system, compressor and gauges to keep an eye on things?

[katoom400]

Originally Posted by capnjim

An email from Todd Quigley follows. I'm going to give it some time, and consider a sway bay, and maybe a steering box adjustment. Tomorrow I'm driving 600 miles. I'll give you an update when I arrive. BTW I really appreciated Todd's quick response. Here's his email.

Jim,

I do have a few things to point out to you, but at the same time would like to assure you that we had several people test drive your unit here and they all felt it was a comfortable driving unit. However we are quite accustomed to driving different 4x4 vehicles. The following are a few things to consider:

1. Your unit has quite a bit of overhang beyond the rear wheels. This tends to give you an rudder type of affect on your front end, the back has input to the front like a rudder on a ship. This will take time to get use to, typical of any type of vehicle with a long overhang.
2. You have added wider tires about a 0.5" per tire. Wider tires tend to grab the ruts of the road which could add to your sensation of a quick response.
3. The steering will take some time to "loosen" as you rack up the miles (5 - 8k miles). The components like most new things will take some time to "break in".
4. Ford's F-Series steering is designed to give you a quicker response. The tie rod ends are not a true "ball joint" style, they do not swivel as a round ball would. Ford designed this steering to be a quick response more of a two way travel, back and forth. That is why they went away from the ball joint style of tie rod end. With a ball joint style you will get more play because you have more directions of travel. Again this will tend to loosen as you add miles to your unit.
5. We have loosened the steering box to allow more play on a few units for our customers until the components themselves loosened over time (5 - 8k miles). It is not recommended to do more than a quarter turn at a time and a qualified tech should be doing the work. Once you find a tech have him call Amy for our procedures and instructions.

I am happy to hear that you enjoy your Quigley 4x4. I hope the above information will help give you some more insight into the performance of your vehicle. If you have any questions let me know. My suggestion would be to rack up the miles, if possible, and see if the issue persists. You are more then welcomed to try the steering box option, but I advise you to have your tech contact us before he does the work.

Thank You,
Todd Quigley
Application's Engineer

Funny story: I remember reading this post and thinking that I have the same concerns with my 2003 E250 quigley. I was also going on a trip (600 miles round trip) and thought to myself.....I'll see how my trip goes and wait for Jim's report to compare notes.

We where camping at the North Pole campground in Lake Placid, My wife and I where taking the kids kayaking on the campground's river, I droped the kayaks by the river and on the way back to the river we walked past a very cool looking 4x4 camper. My wife turned to me and said " Look honey....A Quigley....(I think she knows just as much about them as I do and is most likely sick of hearing me talk about them)

I figured I would try and find the owner after kayaking. I walked past the campsite the next few days and Jim wasn't around. Unfortunately I didn't get to meet him until we where both at the exit getting ready to leave.

It's a Small World!

[carringb]

For an RV like that, a rear track bar may improve things a lot. It will remove the rear axle lateral play.

Your tires may be too aggressive, which can have a very negative impact on vehicle dynamics. THey will get batter as they wear. Next time around, try Toyo M55 tires. They are designed for heavy vehicles, and have much more lateral stiffness in the sidewalls than most AT tires.

[katoom400]

I'm not so sure it has anything to do with tires, mine drove this way with the stock 225 michelin's and I think it actually got slightly better with the 265 yokahama's. I would agree with the description that it is easy to "over compenstate" when counter steering in a turn at highway speeds trying to stay in your lane and not veer towards the semin next to you is a little nerve racking.

my alignment was just done and my tires are new, all ball joints are tight, new steering stabizer, new torque arm/bushings, new track bar bushings. My mechanic says the steering feels very tight, almost too tight. I may try loosening the steering box a bit.

The van had bad death wobble when I got it and Looking at ther service history, the steering box was changed at 10k miles and then again at 30k (most likely the dealer could not figure out the cause of the DW) I wonder if somewhere along the way they decided to try tightening the steering box.

[Skywagon]

I solved my twitchy steering by fabricating a new track bar with rod ends replacing the bushings. See my post under Sloppy steering.
Bill

[capnjim]

After one year and 7000 miles driving, my Quigley is handling and steering fantastic. The unit like many SMB’s is heavily loaded. It weighs in at 11,140 pounds with my KLR650 on a hitch mounted Versa Haul rack. For the record my current front axle weight is 3214 and my rear is 7926. My rear is rated at 7800 I believe. My unit has a 138” chassis with frame rail extensions welded on. My front end / steering problems were caused by a few factors. First and probably most important my front axle was too light, at 3214 it’s still on the light side. I fixed this problem by adding a front hitch mounted tool box and moving a few hundred pounds forward. In addition I believe the front end has broken and loosed up a bit since new. With reference to the rear I have fixed sag and wag by adding Airlift 5000 air bags, a 1 ½ Hellwig sway bag (item # 7085)and Bilstein shocks (item number B461918). Quigley did the install in their Manchester PA factory. The RV feels fantastic now, very sure on its feet, not scary in construction zones or when being passed at high speed by tractor trailers. When new it was, I think I said it required your full attention to drive. That is no longer the case. In the future I would like to get rid of the air bags and replace the springs with a set built by Deaver.
BTW The Quigley experience was over the top, they could not have been more friendly or professional. They are a great resource and clearly demonstrated to me that they care about their vehicles and their customers.

My next challenge is gearing in the rear end, but I’ll save that for a new thread.

[jage]

Now, I'm no expert, but that^^^ is not a Sportsmobile.



So:
1. Looks awesome
2. More Photos! (seen your gallery)
3. Don't let my wife see it!

[capnjim]

Thanks for the reply. It's not an SMB, it's a unit I had built or converted at Quigley. The interior space is fantastic, with a great shower, toilet, galley etc. We live in it for two and a half months a year so we needed a little more space than the van could afford. On the down side, it's a big unit with a large rear overhang which is limiting. Here's a few more photos of the unit.