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Old 05-31-2010, 06:46 PM   #41
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by loopie
Looking forward to your pics Floorguy
Here are a couple of pics from the other day. This is a 2wd with 35's......

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Old 06-01-2010, 05:12 PM   #42
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

No tire rubbing with that setup?
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:53 PM   #43
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

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No tire rubbing with that setup?
Ya the tires rub a little in the front when turned to a full lock either way, but it still has a way better radius than my Super Duty ever did. I will go 33's or 285's next time around, I just got a SUPER deal on these 35's!
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:56 PM   #44
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

I was asked by a customer to post up on this site. I would like to set the record straight on the whole drop down bracket vs bent beam deal...

I would like to start with the fact we have been making off-road performance suspension for these vans for over 10 years now and have ZERO issues with any I beam that had been bent, we have built hundreds of these vans. We have been in business since 1997 and have been using bent I beams since we started on Ford Rangers, F-150 and F250 trucks. Camburg has won multiple races and championships in SCORE, BITD, MDR, SNORE, VORRA, etc. Prior to starting Camburg Jason and I were building race truck suspensions for race trucks racing in races such as the Baja 1000 the ultimate test in off-road and other long distance races that require the best suspension possible. you will not find ANY I beam race trucks with drop down brackets. You will only find bent or modified beams because of many issues drop down brackets would cause under this abuse. The first issue is ground clearance, second comes poor geometry and third comes strength and stress. When you use a drop down bracket the beam pivots are now lowed therefor making the center of the van's suspension hang down losing one of the best features of an I beam suspension when lifted. The next issues of geometry, where the I beams pivot compared to the location of where the steering box is mounted and where the radius arms are mounted are all factors in how the suspension reacts and handles. The last main issue is strength. Drop down brackets will add more load to the frame and could cause damage such as cracking and bending.

Now are drop down brackets all that bad? No... They are just not as good as bent I beams. The only problem with bent I beams is there is really no way to ship and handle bent beams in a hassle free timely manner. How does a customer in Montana or New york get his Van lifted with bent beams if they can't bring it to us here in Huntington Beach, CA... etc. etc... So if you want the best suspension on your van you will need to bring your van to us and have us bend the beams. If you live far away and don't want to hassle with Bent beams then we have a drop down bracket that ads more mounting holes and spreads the loads to your frame reducing the stress that comes with drop down brackets. We also have many upgrades including FOX reservoir shocks, bumpers, and the full line of Aluminus products.

I can be contacted jerry@camburg.com and 714 848-8880 if you have any questions or concerns.

If this post gets read by a moderator I have tried to get in contact with one of you to be a sponsor/advertiser of this site please contact me as well so I can get more involved to add to the information, answer tech questions and save your readers money on any of the parts they might need.


Thank you,

Jerry Zaiden

Van drop down bracket




Heidi Steel 2009 SCORE champion and in 2008 she was the 7sx chamion in both SCORE and BITD on our our bent I beams.



This is an example of what we design and build....

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Old 06-24-2010, 10:14 AM   #45
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

If I had a 2wd van I'd lift it with a Deavers/Bilstein combo and pay attention to the bumpstops, attention to shock length and attention to any king of binding in the steering and tire rubbing because all you need is a little more momentum. The first thing I'd build is an articulation ramp for repeatable testing. With a real locker in the rear you will be able to go 90% of the places you will ever want to go.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:33 PM   #46
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

I have read a lot of garbage from naysayers about bent I-beam lifts and felt I should comment since I have experience with a vehicle which was lifted via bent beams. I have read comments that bent I-beams don't provide proper suspension geometry, are dangerous as it says "do not heat or bend" right on the beams, and that drop down brackets are the way to go for lifting an I-beam suspended vehicle. This couldn't be further from the truth. I am willing to bet the people making these comments have no clue what they are talking about, or they have experienced a poor execution of a bent beam lifted vehicle.

I have owned many different types of lifted vehicles. One of them was a 1992 Ford Ranger which had I-beam front suspension. I bought it with a high end drop bracket lift on it and quickly realized the lift was good in theory but not so good in real use. It was a mess, tracked poorly, was a PIA to drive as it was hard work keeping it in the lane, and it constantly needed to be aligned even without any hard driving or off roading. The tires on the front would wear horribly and require constant rotation to make them last any length of time. I was so tired of the drop down lift I was ready to try anything, including taking the lift off and making the truck stock again (even though I did not want to drive a stock 1992 Ranger).

I then found a local SoCal shop (Fabtech, before they were big and commercialized) who would lift I-beam vehicles by bending the beams. I went and drove one of their shop trucks which was a F150 with bent beams and I couldn't believe how well it drove, even though it was obvious this truck had been beat off road. I left my truck with them to have them take off the drop down brackets and do a bent beam lift (yes "do not heat or bend" was cast into the beams in 1992). That truck is still one of my favorite vehicles (wish I never sold it). From that point on I drove that truck hard on and off road and it never had any more alignment issues. The driveability and tire wear problems were gone. The truck tracked straight and was a pleasure to drive (unlike many lifted vehicles), like it was designed that way from the factory. The friend who bought the truck off of me is still driving it today and it has over 250K miles on it, still with the same bent beams.

Bent beams is a great way to lift these vans if one doesn't need a 4WD conversion. I happen to live local to Camburg so I see a bunch of vans they have lifted rolling around. They all look great. I can't wait until my toy fund can handle the lift for my passenger van.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:45 AM   #47
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Prior to starting Camburg Jason and I were building race truck suspensions for race trucks racing in races
So you do race stuff?
It seems like bending the beams (ignoring the manufacturer's warnings cast directly on the part) would put you in a bad spot legally should an accident occur, liability wise. Wouldnt it also affect geometry being its mounting in the stock location, but bent to allow alignment for lift, thus narrowing the track of the front of the vehicle? They are just being bent, not lengthened, correct? And narrowing the track width while raising the center of gravity would decrease the vehicle stability by normal laws of physics, correct? Having been in the industry for 15 years, and having always heard the general rule of thumb to widen the track 1.5" for every 1" raised to keep your COG it seems counterproductive to raise AND narrow your vehicle and expect it to perform better. Just sayin'
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:41 PM   #48
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocKrawler
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Prior to starting Camburg Jason and I were building race truck suspensions for race trucks racing in races
So you do race stuff?
It seems like bending the beams (ignoring the manufacturer's warnings cast directly on the part) would put you in a bad spot legally should an accident occur, liability wise. Wouldnt it also affect geometry being its mounting in the stock location, but bent to allow alignment for lift, thus narrowing the track of the front of the vehicle? They are just being bent, not lengthened, correct? And narrowing the track width while raising the center of gravity would decrease the vehicle stability by normal laws of physics, correct? Having been in the industry for 15 years, and having always heard the general rule of thumb to widen the track 1.5" for every 1" raised to keep your COG it seems counterproductive to raise AND narrow your vehicle and expect it to perform better. Just sayin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocKrawler
So you do race stuff?
Yes I do race stuff




The way we bend the beams does not narrow the track very much at all around 1/2" per side. But with wider tires and wider off-set wheels you get the extra width over stock. As for the warning on the beams the warning is there because the "Old Fashion" way of aligning the ford I beam vehicles was to bend the beams. This was because there were no camber caster adjusters in the ball joints Fords use to have king pins with ZERO adjust-ability. Now in the Camburg Bent beam kits we use larger aftermarket 2 piece cam eccentrics that will adjust out more than 1/2 the amount the beams would need to get bent if we used the factory cams. Now yes the drop down brackets do keep the track width to factory spec but they also raise the roll center as they move the pivots 6" lower then where they are with a bent beam kit. Also with your logic the track width would still be narrow over the amount of lift. When raising any vehicle you do raise the center of gravity.
As for geometry bent beams are as stock as it gets as the beams still pivot in the FACTORY location. We do install a longer set of radius arms that will still mount in the factory mounts holes and pivot at the same height as the stock ones but like I said they are longer. Why longer? Well the suspension because of the added wheel travel will go through much more caster change there with a longer radius arm you get less change over travel.

Now you say you have been in the off-road industry for over 15 years. Where are you from and where do you work?

Here is a video of what we build and design...

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Old 07-11-2010, 02:21 AM   #49
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

I grew up in California, worked for 4 Wheel Parts, Drivetrain Direct, All Pro Off Road and recently moved to VA working for IPOR Inc (Iron Pig Off Road and 4x4 Connection, different divisions, same company). I know several people in the industry that have been bending beams, and that have never had any problems - but the fact that it narrows track width is an issue that was dealt with using different offsets and spacers generally that may not apply here. Your shop has always had a good reputation in the parts quality aspect, but its also been in the racing category and not so much the street category from the reports I have personally heard about. I personally have seen very few of your parts on the road with customers I have wheeled with on the trail and dealt with selling parts to in the shops I have run, so I'm just asking to gauge how you are doing it as respects the primarily street driven vehicles here. And can a customer supply a set of beams to you to bend and include the balance of the kit, or will you only do it if the van is physically there in your shop? Lets face it, there are full size vans in every junkyard that a good set of beams can be pulled for a few bucks and sent over, downing your own vehicle is not a real requirement because beams are so scarce that you have to send your own... That should make s marked difference in price and allow local install for those not in the SoCal area driving range.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:35 PM   #50
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

I wish it was as easy as going to the local junk yard to get a set of beams. The fact is there are over 10 different part numbers for the I beams just in the last 8 years. There are mild changes in them from E-150, 250, and 350.
I can tell you from personal experience that bent beams handle better on and off-road than drop brackets. The on road is about 20% close to the same but the extra ground clearance and lower roll center off road is really where the bent beams shine. Now we recognize most people around the world who want our products can't just send us their beams so this is why we make drop brackets. Now you can take the word from the company who "CAN'T" bend beams saying there drop down brackets are better. Or you can take the word from the company that builds BOTH. This is up to you.

As for the Camburg suspension being used on road.. Well 4 Wheel Parts has been selling our products for a few years now as well as many other "Lift Shops". You need to remember our product is designed for the ultimate in PERFORMANCE not "looks" With our products the look comes from the function. Our products need to perform at the highest level on and off-road.
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