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Old 07-12-2010, 04:45 PM   #51
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Now yes the drop down brackets do keep the track width to factory spec but they also raise the roll center as they move the pivots 6" lower then where they are with a bent beam kit.
That statement is fundamentally incorrect.

The drop bracket maintain the stock roll center, it does not raise it, as the instant centers are in the exact same location as stock (as measured from the ground, as all kinematics should be). Bending the I-beams raises the FVSA (front view swing arm) instant centers, and therefore also raises the roll center.

For the rest of the audience... Why does the roll center matter?

The higher the roll center, the smaller the rolling the rolling moment is about the roll center. In other words, the higher roll center inherently resits roll, so that the springs (incl. sway bar) do not have to. In other words, assuming an identical spring setup, the vehicle with the higher roll center will exhibit less body roll.

Good, right? Well, not all the time. In both setups, the "non-rolling overturning moment" is the same, which means both will roll just as easy, but in an extreme case of "jacking" (such as with a roll center near or at the vehicle cG) the driver will get no warning that vehicle is about to flip. Every road vehicle sold in the US today has a roll center low enough to exhibit body body roll before rollover occurs.

Race trucks are different, mostly because the driver's are trained drive those trucks, and also when off-pavement there is rarely enough lateral traction to cause rollover even with high amounts of jacking present.

The M151 Jeep was notorious for unexpected rollovers, largely because it's IFS had a high roll center.

So in a nutshell... A raised roll center may not be bad, as long as the cG is also raised, and the driver understands the limitation of the vehicle, but may not be as on pavement in some situations.


Now... for my take on bending the I-beams.

I think this borders on irresponsible. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Camburg heat treats the I-beams after bending? Without the additional step, the forged I-beams lose strength. Just because a Camburg van hasn't broken one yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. If I were to buy bent i-beams, I would sure like to the all the FEA and destructive testing analysis performed on their I-beams before I'd trust them on my vehicles.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:11 PM   #52
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

You are right. I should have not used the words "roll center". I said that so the average guy would under stand what I was getting at.

In a nut shell when you use a drop bracket your mass is pivoting further above the roll center. This will cause more body roll because the vehicle has 1 been lifted and 2 the mass is now way higher than if it was in the factory location i.e. bent beams.


As for bending the beams. They are Cast not forged. There is no reason to heat treat them as they are not heat treated to begin with. They are basically molten metal poured into a mold then cooled in natural air when made. When we heat them up we are not heating them up to a temperature that would change the chemical or physical properties of the steel. We are heating them up to a temperature that makes it easier to bend them and we have a process in how we heat and cool them off.

Like I said I have driven both and we build both. The bent beams are the better way to go.
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Old 07-13-2010, 12:21 AM   #53
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were forged. I have far less concern over the bent arms now.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:49 AM   #54
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
I wish it was as easy as going to the local junk yard to get a set of beams. The fact is there are over 10 different part numbers for the I beams just in the last 8 years. There are mild changes in them from E-150, 250, and 350.
Is the part number cast on the arm?
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:12 PM   #55
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Yes the part numbers are on the beams.
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Old 07-16-2010, 07:00 PM   #56
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Yes the part numbers are on the beams.
OK, so if someone found the same beam (by verifying part number) what would it cost to bend them and supply the balance of the kit?
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:46 PM   #57
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

So by the lack of response you wont do the exchange if the same beams are supplied verified by part number?
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:26 PM   #58
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocKrawler
So by the lack of response you wont do the exchange if the same beams are supplied verified by part number?
You may want to use the e-mail button rather than just posting here. If Jerry doesn't check here often, you may not get a response for a while.


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Old 07-27-2010, 10:23 PM   #59
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocKrawler
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Yes the part numbers are on the beams.
OK, so if someone found the same beam (by verifying part number) what would it cost to bend them and supply the balance of the kit?
The bent beam kit would cost $2995.00

Also in my signature is all my contact info
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:31 PM   #60
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Re: Ford 2wd lift kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocKrawler
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryzaiden
Yes the part numbers are on the beams.
OK, so if someone found the same beam (by verifying part number) what would it cost to bend them and supply the balance of the kit?
The bent beam kit would cost $2995.00

Also in my signature is all my contact info
I appreciate it - thanks.
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