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Old 09-26-2014, 11:18 AM   #1
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King Fire

For those of you interested in taking a look at the King Fire, this is probably the best website I have found:

http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4108/

Look at the burn map, is the burnt area smaller than, equal to or larger than Lake Tahoe? (Hint: click on the minus sign on the left of the map to compare.)

Unfortunately, the FS does not have money to thin the 400% (more than historical) trees which are overburdening the citizens national forest lands and to reduce the forest floor fuels (i.e., the dead trees and logs on the forest floor).

They only have $70,000,000 to fight the fire which would have erupted anyway by lightning, negligence or intent in the tender box that they created.

Expect more of this.

And remember, since the removal of tariff's on Canadian forest products and the rise of the environmentalists, we no longer have a logging industry in California (there were five logging mills in Placerville, CA when I was young).

San Joaquin County just added 35 more no burn days to their calendar.

But, without a logging industry, there is no way to remove the dead logs. (The forests just keep growing...*)

So, our forests will burn either one log at a time in our fireplaces or a forest at a time.

Either way will release smoke and carbon into the atmosphere.

The latter way kills animals, sanitizes the soil, and burn's people's homes.

Which way is the most productive way to burn?


* And there is nothing "natural" about the kind of fire that occurs in a forest which has 400% more standing trees per acre than it has had historically and has 40 years of accumulated fuel on the forest floor.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:10 PM   #2
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Re: King Fire

this fire has been responsible for some incredible sunsets here lately, but our air quality is in the crapper. amazing how a fire from a state so far from us can have so much impact.

can feel for you guys though. our forests are in the same state as yours. i see lots of adds on tv about cleaning up our forests to help stop these devastating fires, but that seems to be as far as it gets. this last summer hasnt been near as bad as the 2 prior, but is sure does suck to find a new area to explore, get a few trips in, then get banned from area due to flash flood hazards.
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:43 PM   #3
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Re: King Fire

I drove down 395 from the top of California (Alturas) to Hwy 58 (near Barstow) late last week and thought I might get into some big smoke from the King Fire, but I never did. I also hadn't found a really good source of smoke cover info at that time, so had my fingers crossed, since I had already committed to that route.
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:08 PM   #4
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Re: King Fire

I do feel the forest service planned solutions are not going to be what people expect. I saw some plans to address fire disaster that takes into consideration of what can be destroyed to forest service lands as well as citizen or corporate properties such as homes businesses and things like power grids. They're throwing in air quality, and even the highly debated climate change as reason for change. But like the air resource board here in CA, they are not going to tell us what they're plan is until it's implemented. I wonder what they'll come up with My guess is the solution will be limiting backcountry access for vehicles, limiting off road recreation, limiting fires and hunting all the while supporting Mother Nature which is probably more of the problem than any just mentioned. Many of the people working for the forest service disagree with what is coming down from Washington concerning policy. A ranger told me he thought it was an insane move to close off FS roads because he claimed it was those using the backcountry roads that keep them open helping fire fighters gain clear access to remote areas when needed. If you've ever looked at pictures of places like Yosemite in the 1800's it amazing how desolate it looked back before fire suppression and conservation was taken into account. The old thought of let Nature take its coarse is BS unless you want to see ugly terrain. I just feel there is a medium standpoint that could be introduced but you'll never see this with who's running the Dept of Ag right now
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:57 PM   #5
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Re: King Fire

FYI this is from someone much more knowledgeable than me in response to my thread on the same topic on the ford-trucks.com site (reprinted with permission):

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/13379 ... st14695917

"As your friendly resident retired professor of forestry/department chairman (Sierra College, 23 years), I will tell you it is as bad as Tim writes. Many, many of the trees which are burned would make wonderful sawlogs at a mill. Unfortunately, they won't be harvested following the fire. The USFS is run by leftists who have prevented (in conjunction with the enviro-crazies) the harvesting of the Rim Fire (275,000+ acres, 430 square miles) area. They will tie-up salvage logging sales in court for at least a year. Then the value of the logs will be so low (due to fungi and weather) that it would not pay a company to log the area (and that is what they want). About 20 years ago there was a large fire above Lake Tahoe and Sierra Pacific Industries bid $20 million dollars to salvage log it using copter logging (so no roads would have to be built)...the crazies ran to court and prevented it. Today those logs are rotting on the stump as a hazard to anyone in the area. I obtained multiple degrees in forestry and judges think they know more about forestry than I do.

Accretion (build-up) of fuels in the Sierra Nevada exceeds decomposition rates. This means if you don't harvest timber with saws, nature will harvest with fire. Show me a forest in the Sierra that you can even see into the woods anymore from the road...The Sierra has turned from an early successional forest (pines) to late-successional forest (firs & incense-cedar) that can live in extremely dense stands.

Oh, and the crazies have caused the shutdown of 80 mills in California due to little to no green sales (living trees) being conducted on our National Forests. At the same time 80 mills have opened in Canada...hard to run a sawmill without logs! My guess is that Californians are using no less lumber or toilet paper. Thank you for the loss of jobs in rural California. Damn incompetence!

This same aversion to managing natural resources that the USFS has is coming to Nevada. What I was saw happen in forestry in California for over a quarter-century, the "environmentalists" are now working hard to shut down mining in this state on BLM land. City folks don't care because the products they use, whether wood products or mining products, will come from somewhere else in the world. It is NIMBYism (Not In My Back Yard). The only difference out here in the "sticks" is we just see the jobs, at the mill or the mines, going away. Damn shame!

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Old 09-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #6
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Re: King Fire

ummm, vans... forumsaboutvans.... gimmevans

*caveati'mguiltytoo*
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:26 PM   #7
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Re: King Fire

twogone: That's why I put in "Campfire."

Have you ever sat around a campfire?

(Dude, have you ever seen the "EDC" thread?!)
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:17 PM   #8
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Re: King Fire

Too bad about the fire and it's effects, but this thread is way too full of political bullshit for me to participate in.
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:28 PM   #9
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Re: King Fire

I'm sorry I even posted. I have my opinions but don't want to start something here. Let's keep it civil.
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Old 09-27-2014, 04:33 PM   #10
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Re: King Fire

psssst, Dave…wasn't talking about you!
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