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Old 01-05-2009, 05:11 PM   #1
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Red Rock Attempt at Closure

Please email a letter today! It's the last day to get our voices heard!

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/sh ... p?t=119818
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:07 PM   #2
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Will send off the requested e-mails, and also cross-posted to SoCal Broncos.


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Old 01-05-2009, 06:49 PM   #3
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Thank you Herb, every bit helps.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:54 PM   #4
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Yeah, don't you just love the Center for Biologic Diversity (CBD)? We'll have all the diversity in the world, but you won't be allowed be go see any of it. I won't say people don't abuse the land, but we can't continually cater to, and make laws, based solely upon the lowest common denominator in society.




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Old 01-06-2009, 02:14 PM   #5
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BS as usual. I'm so sick and tired of this stuff...face it were a minority. The government always pulls this crap by keeping as low key as they can about similar issues. I mean at least I should have heard about it some time back if it was well known or did I just flat out miss it?. To say they will not listen to any E-Mails after the 5th is flat wrong. Fresno can't get rid of their homeless because some agency says they got rights to park their ass on public land and parks. But tax paying people can't have access to public lands because of a few jerks that trash the land at times. Face it parks will be trashed, deal with it in a manor that's suitable for the tax paying users. The air quality board shut down a few county dirt roads some years back because of the dangerous dust. Friggin dust! Oh, they also threw in cattle theft, trash, and the cost to maintain the road. But they did the same thing by keeping low key about the issue until it was over and closed. 2 years prior, the county built a multi million dollar bridge on one of the roads they closed. Some rancher got a free bridge partially out of my pocket book.
Here is what their up to around here.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/stanislaus/projects/ohv/
Just keeps getting worse. Sorry for the rant.
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:26 PM   #6
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No need to apologize, if more people ranted, we might actually stop some of these closures.

Many of the Govt agencies just cave in to the anti-access groups because of the lawsuits, or threats of lawsuits.


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Old 01-06-2009, 03:48 PM   #7
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I've seen some area closed that really should have been closed. Lots of ignorant folks out there that just don't give a *&^%. What makes people think it's OK just to leave garbage on the ground and destroy everything around? I also believe that there are some places people just should not be. The true answer lies somewhere in the middle. More effort needs to be made to keep what is left pristine so that there is less amunition for the folks who want to close it off. Trying to organize after the fact is kind of like promising not to drive drunk again after several DUIs. MHO.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:14 PM   #8
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Agree that there are plenty of ignorant people out there busing the land. Punish them, not everyone.

Agree there needs to be a balance. No one has said otherwise.

This particular effort was not about creating vehicular access where there wasn't any, it was protecting the access that currently exists, hence it is not after-the-fact.


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Old 01-06-2009, 10:13 PM   #9
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What I meant by after the fact is that from my perspective by and large the off road community has put lots of effort into trying to prevent closings rather than trying to prevent the reasons for the closings in the first place. Sure there is the occasional clean up here and there but you don't see them raising money for serious restoration/conservancy efforts like many other organizations do. Look at duck hunters, flyfisherman, birdwatchers etc. They all have organizations that have preserved lots of land all over the country. These arent even sierra club type of organizations either. It's not like the off-road community is this tiny little group of people either. Why can't they be more proactive? Public land should be protected for all to enjoy. IF hunters or birdwatechers as a group were causing serious damage they too would be targeted as a group. Herb I am not all trying to single you out or even disagree with you. I'm not even saying that this area should be closed, I've never even been there and don't know any facts. It just bugs me every time a trail closure thread pops up it seems most jump on the anyone who wants to protect anythink is wrong bandwagon. I belong to organizations on both sides and they both have pionts. Off my soap box for now
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:32 PM   #10
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I thought I posted this already...OK I'll add extra, vent a little more plus add some pics.

So Dave when will the word come down, and is there any news on the feedback the State got? I like Red Rock because it's unique, a quick camping stop on the way to DV and I have seen the endangered squirrel there.

I don't want to go political here but I somewhat agree with Seth's point of view yet I strongly disagree on the Red Rock issue from first glance. Unfortunately common sense is slowly heading into deeper space as time goes on. I believe there is a realistic medium out at hand but extremists get the news media to spin environmental issues so much these days that I feel there will be a time where off roading will be a thing of the past. Management personnel seem over zealous in closing off areas to 4x4 travel and camping. Many ecologists are actually naturalists who would rather see vehicles like ours kicked off pristine lands. Our Forum group and other SMB owners seem to be out of the ordinary. I was a big time back packer at one time and still feel strongly about protecting our natural resources. It seems many SMB owners are similar in regards to protecting our public lands. It's a crying shame all off roader's and campers don't have the same attitude as most SMBers do, but I think the eco side would still be in favor of area closures to 4x4 travel no matter how nice anybody is to the environment. I don't like being choked off the land because someone doesn't like what I do. I don't have quads and prefer not to be around them but I think there should be a number of premium places for those folks to ride. Same with off road vehicle trails. Yellowstone has an area void of roads bigger than many states. I'm not saying blaze new trails through it but screw the person who says you need to hike it. I have arthritis that prohibits me from walking several miles, so I'm one American who will never be able to see it. Too bad I have to agree with many eco- assessments because jerks would probably cause more damage by not following the rules. Could the park service put a road through Yellowstone and have guided 4x4 runs there plus still control damage? Yes, but it will never happen. What scares me about the Red Rock State Park closure is it will probably bleed to other local trails. I fear it's only going to get worse.
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