Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-06-2018, 10:06 AM   #71
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 68
10 things I have learned

10 things I learned during the course:

1. These vehicles are very capable... steep terrain, rocks, loose sand, scary side ward slopes.
2. Practical recommendations for tire pressure F/R on Highway (60/65 PSI), Gravel (50/55) and on rocks/sand/snow surface (30/35).
2. Maxtrax are extremely useful as a first tool when you get stuck in sand, mud, snow: quick, easy, safe compared to winching. Need 4 of them.
3. I rather carry a Pull Pal than dig in a spare tire as an anchor for winching. An 11,000# pull pall did the job in loose sand with van stuck up a slope. Other circumstances may require heavier duty pull pall, I just don't have experience to really know.
4. Hawse fairlead is not great for synthetic winch line... they eat more of the line than I am happy with. I will get roller fairlead (though some people worry about the rope getting stuck between the rollers).
5. The winch should really be front mounted, not feet down. May need to get custom plate made and reinstall.
6. The hi-lift jack is only of very limited use with these heavy vehicles. For sure I cannot lift rear tires with that jack.... simply too heavy for this tool and me. Not sure about front tires... You may still consider the jack for manual winching off rear receiver to back out of something (in combination with driving back wards).
7. Receiver recovery hitch is useful when manually winching backwards and when pulling someone else out.
8. Winching requires training and regular practice. Take this very seriously.
9. The Bubba kinetic recovery rope recommendation on the website is different from what was recommended during course. Get the 30,000#, not 50,000#.
10. I should learn how to plug a tire.
Attached Thumbnails
_DSC2440 4x4 recovery course with Bill Burke, Anza Borrego Desert State Park, California, USA.jpg  
__________________

Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 10:09 AM   #72
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 68
As Illking said: A 11,000# pull pall did the job in loose sand with the van stuck up a slope. Other circumstances may require heavier duty pull pall, I just don't have experience to really know.
__________________

Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 10:50 AM   #73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 656
Wow, Marcel. This is extremely helpful information. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

There's one thing I have to ask. How much physical exertion did recovery efforts require? I always thought that when I got too old to backpack that I'd just transition to a SMB. I used to be able to work like a horse, but now in my mid-60s and retired, I've suddenly realized that my physical abilities have declined significantly. I'm now starting to wonder if I'm strong enough to do these things. I know these tools do most of the work, but I'm now wondering if I'd be able to handle the physical part I'd still have to do. I realize I need to go as part of a group, not by myself. I believe in knowing my limitations. I wind up asking myself whether I should throw in the towel, get a little Class C, and forget off roading. So, could you and any others address how much physical exertion you had to put forth? Thanks.
TomH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:19 AM   #74
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 300
Agreed. That was a good list Marcel! I'd add to my list that I learned that I get stuck more than everyone else and that my ARB tire deflator is a pain. I ordered up some Coyote deflators like I should have done in the first place. I will be adding a Pull Pal to my must get list as well as a set of 4 Maxtrax. I have two cheaper recovery boards but after seeing Maxtrax in person I realized I should have laid down the money for the real thing.

I didn't think there was too much that we learned that required a ton of physical exertion. In most cases the machinery did much of the work. There is walking uphill/downhill, clearing sand from the tires, getting the Pull Pal out of the sand, etc. For me, at 51, the biggest issue would be getting the spare off of the tire carrier in the rear. Or more accurately getting the damaged tire onto the carrier. It's a pain getting the bolt holes on that heavy tire lined up while holding it up in the air.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
__________________
2013 E-350 6.8L V10 4x4 RB50, penthouse top, Aluminess bumpers
rltilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:21 AM   #75
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 68
Physical effort

Hi Tom,

My take: Driving a 4x4 van is not a significant physical effort. Just gradually gain experience to not mess up. Not messing up significantly reduces the physical effort, but not messing up requires experience, practice, patience and always using your brain. This includes stopping and turning around in time. Should you get stuck, stop, carefully asses your situation and decide on the best approach rather than trying to floor your way out of it which may make it worse.... If and when you get stuck, things may get more physically demanding:

1. Working with maxtrax and tire chains is little physical effort, except if digging in sand/snow/mud is required to reduce the resistance (e.g. you may need to get the differential to clear the substrate).
2. Pulling out a pull pall after use may take some strength, but attaching a strap eases the job (rather than digging it out).
3. When it comes to a winch, I found that it takes quite a bit of effort to pull the line out. More effort than I expected (see attached image). But you can take your time rather than run like young dogs like Ray and me.
4. Spare tire: thinking about it I think the most physically demanding thing is to change a tire. You may use a bottle jack or a hummer rated scissor jack to lift the axle and get the tire up in the air. .. but... I weighed our 33" tires.... 88 pounds!!! Getting a spare tire off the carrier, lifting it on the hub, getting the flat tire back on the carrier.... not easy. I honestly think that changing a tire may be among the most physically demanding aspects.... but... if you use good E-rated tires, if you adjust tire pressure to the surface, and if you drive carefully (don't damage sidewalls, valve stems), you will probably rarely get a flat.

Using the van - driving and camping - requires mental effort. It is easy to forget things. I started making check lists that I use when arriving at a site, and leaving a site. Some may call it overkill, but it is just too easy to forget something. For example: turning off propane and (diesel) heater before you start driving is really really important, and hopefully this will not easily be forgotten. On the other hand, it is easy to forget a roof hatch is open.... Again, I am using check lists... just treat it like a complicated machine and never ever be in a hurry.


Hope this helps. I probably didn't think of everything, but at least this is a start. Others can chime in...
Attached Thumbnails
_DSC2129 4x4 recovery course with Bill Burke, Anza Borrego Desert State Park, California, USA.jpg  
Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:27 AM   #76
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 68
@rltilley:

1. Thanks for adding the tire deflators to the list!
2. We both agree that dealing with a flat tire is probably among the most physically demanding aspects. Indeed, holding the flat in the air and aligning the holes with the bolts on the carrier is quite demanding.
Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:29 AM   #77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 300
Good point. The winch line was heavier than I expected as well. And the steel cable even more so obviously.

In order to avoid having to take a tire off I carry an ARB tire repair kit along with a couple of Colby valves. My hope is that I'll be able to fix the tire rather than changing to the spare.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
__________________
2013 E-350 6.8L V10 4x4 RB50, penthouse top, Aluminess bumpers
rltilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 02:13 PM   #78
Senior Member
 
arctictraveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,113
[QUOTE=Marcel Huijser;223100]Hi Tom,

My take: 2. Pulling out a pull pall after use may take some strength, but attaching a strap eases the job (rather than digging it out).

When pulling out a boat anchor that's really stuck in the bottom, you simply reel it in until the line is straight up and down and then let the boat work on it. The pull-pal is quite similar, so either winching it straight up, or pulling it backwards should release it with little physical effort. With Maxtrax, tying a rope from the bumper to the Maxtrax will not only pull it out of the sand, it will prevent you from having to hike back to find and then recover it. It also makes it easier to keep moving until you reach firm ground and avoid the return trip.

3. When it comes to a winch, I found that it takes quite a bit of effort to pull the line out. More effort than I expected (see attached image). But you can take your time rather than run like young dogs like Ray and me.

Lot's of winches allow you to power out as well as in, requiring no effort at all.

4. Spare tire: thinking about it I think the most physically demanding thing is to change a tire. You may use a bottle jack or a hummer rated scissor jack to lift the axle and get the tire up in the air. .. but... I weighed our 33" tires.... 88 pounds!!! Getting a spare tire off the carrier, lifting it on the hub, getting the flat tire back on the carrier.... not easy.


Getting the spare on the axle will be easier if you roll it up to about the correct height on your leveling blocks. The use a lever of some sort to lift it the last inch or so. Getting the flat back on the carrier is a bit more difficult, but try tying a rope through the center, then tossing the rope to the front of the van where your helper takes a wrap or two around something. Then as you lift a little at a time, your helper takes up the slack and holds the tire in place while you re-position or rest. Drape a rag or something over your top if your worried about scratching it. The strain on the top should be minimal. You could also wrap the rope around your roof rack is so equipped. Last resort might be to just put it inside until you can get someone to help. (find a tree branch to roll it up into the van)


Using the van - driving and camping - requires mental effort. It is easy to forget things....

I now make it a point to walk completely around the van every time I'm ready to drive away. It's too easy to leave something sitting on a bumper, fully latch a swing out, or back over something unseen.
__________________
Arctic Traveller
KC6TNI
2001 GTRV
Advanced 4wd
Agile Ride improvement package
www.arctictraveller.com
arctictraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 03:07 PM   #79
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 68
@arctic traveller

Thanks, really useful suggestions and tips!
Marcel Huijser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 03:23 PM   #80
Member
 
Botchan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Laguna Beach
Posts: 49
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomH View Post
Wow, Marcel. This is extremely helpful information. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

There's one thing I have to ask. How much physical exertion did recovery efforts require? I always thought that when I got too old to backpack that I'd just transition to a SMB. I used to be able to work like a horse, but now in my mid-60s and retired, I've suddenly realized that my physical abilities have declined significantly. I'm now starting to wonder if I'm strong enough to do these things. I know these tools do most of the work, but I'm now wondering if I'd be able to handle the physical part I'd still have to do. I realize I need to go as part of a group, not by myself. I believe in knowing my limitations. I wind up asking myself whether I should throw in the towel, get a little Class C, and forget off roading. So, could you and any others address how much physical exertion you had to put forth? Thanks.

TomH -

I wouldn't say its an age thing. It was Bill Burke's 65th birthday that Friday/the first day of the course and he would have kicked all of our asses. I'm sure like anything else - the more you do it - the easier it gets. I would say that I was probably more mentally exhausted from all the info that Bill was providing. Marcel was the smart one taking notes!

If you get a chance, take the course. You wont be disappointed.
__________________

Botchan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
4x4, burke, class, training, trip

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.