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Old 09-30-2018, 12:41 PM   #91
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This is incredible work. I might just have to copy this once it's all figured out. I'll let someone else do the figuring out though. This is way above my knowledge.

It's pretty figured out for now....been using the above setup for a few months......


Any solution needs to really bump up the load at the very end of travel when the roof is almost down, I think I'm at 500 lbs or so with the die spring....more spring load is possible but I may start bending metal..so I'm happy for now.

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Old 02-26-2019, 11:08 AM   #92
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Hi Scott,
Any updates on this project? I've really enjoyed seeing the progress of the idea.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:17 AM   #93
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No Updates....works better than springs so far.....haven't had time to play with this any further.
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:27 PM   #94
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Anyone in Utah with experience adjusting springs interested in helping me out with mine?
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:53 AM   #95
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It's pretty figured out for now....been using the above setup for a few months......


Any solution needs to really bump up the load at the very end of travel when the roof is almost down, I think I'm at 500 lbs or so with the die spring....more spring load is possible but I may start bending metal..so I'm happy for now.

So I am about to sleeve my bent cross bars and do the pivot upgrades laid out earlier. Given what you know would encourage or discourage this gas shock spring replacement at the same time? I think I could fab up the aluminum and delrin blocks with my set of tools. I really like the idea of a smooth operating top. The current inertia is taking the headliner apart and getting at it. I use a 1 to 5 silent finger raise method at work sometimes to gauge interest on an idea. I wonder if you would be 5 fingers or not. I hope that made sense. 1 finger is luke warm to nada on the interest.


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Old 08-31-2019, 01:02 PM   #96
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The gas spring mod is completely independent of fixing bent crossbars and beefing up the pivots......and it's super easy to get to whenever you want.


Just pop the top, unscrew the upholstery in the rear of the van, remove the plates above the helper springs and remove the springs. The springs are likely just sitting there uncompressed when the top is up.


Removing the crossbars is much much more effort.......
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Old 07-26-2020, 10:08 AM   #97
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So I've further developed the gas spring "helper-spring" replacement design.....


Here are a couple shots of the config I've been running since 2018.......as discussed in the posts above in this thread.








This design works quite well, but I wanted to get the compressed spring stack load off of the rear of the PH roof channels and transfer that load into a plate/mounting bracket that covers the springs.


I have wanted to further increase the spring load at the end of roof travel when the roof is down, but didn't want to risk bending sheet metal at the rear end of the PH mounting channels.


.....the latest design has has a spring force reaction block mounted on a large aluminum angle that takes the place of the helper spring cover plates; this angle mounting plate also screws to the side of the roof channels in two places for further robustness.


In this design all of the spring load is reacted by the 5 screws that fasten the aluminum mounting angle to the channel......I hope this is clear....



This allows me to crank up the spring load at the end of the travel without overloading the end pocket of the channel which is just bent steel.










The aluminum channel mounts flush with the top of the channel so it's lower profile than the stock SMB helper spring cover plates as well.


I'm still using the 1176 lbs/in die springs from Mcmaster, and I can add or subtract washers under the spring to change spring preload. Each washer is .060" thick and changes the spring load by 70 lbs per side.













This configuration works the best so far (as expected!)..but I'd still like more spring load at the very end of travel when the roof is down.


I have 3 solar panels and some Yakima crossbars on the roof and can raise the roof with one arm now, but again..more spring help when the roof is first lifting off would be welcome.
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Old 07-26-2020, 11:45 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by boywonder View Post
So I've further developed the gas spring "helper-spring" replacement design.....


Here are a couple shots of the config I've been running since 2018.......as discussed in the posts above in this thread.








This design works quite well, but I wanted to get the compressed spring stack load off of the rear of the PH roof channels and transfer that load into a plate/mounting bracket that covers the springs.


I have wanted to further increase the spring load at the end of roof travel when the roof is down, but didn't want to risk bending sheet metal at the rear end of the PH mounting channels.


.....the latest design has has a spring force reaction block mounted on a large aluminum angle that takes the place of the helper spring cover plates; this angle mounting plate also screws to the side of the roof channels in two places for further robustness.


In this design all of the spring load is reacted by the 5 screws that fasten the aluminum mounting angle to the channel......I hope this is clear....



This allows me to crank up the spring load at the end of the travel without overloading the end pocket of the channel which is just bent steel.










The aluminum channel mounts flush with the top of the channel so it's lower profile than the stock SMB helper spring cover plates as well.


I'm still using the 1176 lbs/in die springs from Mcmaster, and I can add or subtract washers under the spring to change spring preload. Each washer is .060" thick and changes the spring load by 70 lbs per side.













This configuration works the best so far (as expected!)..but I'd still like more spring load at the very end of travel when the roof is down.


I have 3 solar panels and some Yakima crossbars on the roof and can raise the roof with one arm now, but again..more spring help when the roof is first lifting off would be welcome.

How much arm twisting would it take to make a second set of the machined blocks? I have access to some machining but you have it all down. I have the parts ready!
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Old 07-26-2020, 05:54 PM   #99
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I'm not planning on machining anymore blocks.........but there should be enough info here to get to a solution if you've got the idea.


Also, it's worth noting here...that the gas spring force values, die springs and spring preload can all be tuned to whatever you have on your roof. The values I'm using reflect 3 solar panels and a pair of Yakima crossbars on my roof. I'm also 3 links tighter on the big extension spring chains.


Substituting 70lb or 60lb gas springs for the second stage (in my case) would likely slightly improve the roof action when lowering..but at this point the returns are diminishing.....



I updated the crossbar pivot joint today.....just because I think my latest config is cleaner and more robust....the old 5/16" shoulder screws and spacer were working fine; they have been in there since 2013.


Old Shoulder screws:





New crossbar pivot config: (needs 2 3/4" long shoulder screws) The new design gets the two outer wear points 1/4" in from either end of the shoulder screw.



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Old 07-26-2020, 06:04 PM   #100
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That looks great!
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