Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-09-2019, 09:29 AM   #51
REF
Senior Member
 
REF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Boulder, CO.
Posts: 2,552
Send a message via MSN to REF
Agile RIP kit "gave" me death wobble???

I still owe you some pics of my setup... I had another thought on why it swims more now than before. The Moog progressive rate coil could be contributing to that on top of everything else that’s been mentioned.
Progressive coils tend to be a bit softer at the start of their compression and are stiffer the more they compress into their tighter coils, so sweeping highway curves are only seeing the “top” or softest part of the spring.
For sure a larger front sway or adding a rear sway will help a ton with on road stability, but at the cost of loosing off road articulation and comfort unless you go with disconnects on both, and that might be hard to fab up on the rear.
Do you still have the coils that were on there before? Might be worth putting those back on to try before throwing a ton more money at it.....

__________________
'03 Ford E350 7.3L Diesel
(de)SMB'd Custom RB-50
Quigley 4X4 w/Deavers & Agile Offroad's R.I.P. package
CCV High Profile Pop Top
REF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 11:15 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
MadScience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Peninsula
Posts: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesisnight View Post
When you say mark all the bushing interfaces in the back what do you mean, back of the bushing or rear end of the vehicle?
I meant the bushings on the rear of the vehicle. I wouldn't dismiss the thought that your movement could be coming from there. Especially if you use terms like "swimming" to describe it. Even new parts can occasionally be bad.

Quote:
In the rear it has all new leafs from Agile and brand new shackles and bushings so all good there. Front has brand new track bar bushings, new sway bar frame and axle poly bushings, ball joints and Ujoints are good, tie rod is new, drag link is decent but old and I have considered replacing it for the heck of it, not really sure what else to check to see if its loose.
Well, something is moving in a way we don't want it to. The question is what and then why. It's certainly possible that you got unlucky somehow and ended up with a bad or incorrectly fit part somewhere. Making a couple of paint marks with a sharpie or paint marker is pretty simple and may help you locate something that's moving.

Quote:
I wouldn't say its completely intermittent, definitely happens always at freeway speeds but sometimes it feels better and isn't nonstop so probably based off road, and wind conditions, being passed by semis, etc. making long curvy turns seem to be a little worse but it often happens on straights too. Its hard to describe but it sways or swerves L and R and gets the suspension moving a little almost like a top heavy feeling maybe it reminds me of (I do have a high top but it shouldn't be that bad and feels nice and stable around town and off road). So then I have to try and over-correct and gently get it under control again, letting off the gas doesn't really help while it is happening much, sometimes hitting the gas is the same or can help even at times.
If you can find a way to mount an action camera to the bottom of the van, you might be able to figure out which axle is moving in what way while it's happening. You'd want to have the at least one axle and the van frame in the video frame.

Plenty of van's have a ton of weight up high, I've got an AC and a huge roof deck up there. What you describe is not how they have to drive.

The rear say bar is the one thing I'm seeing mentioned that I'd be willing to get behind just trying.
__________________

'99 EB ex ENG KSWB news van, low rent 4x4 conversion (mostly fixed by now), home built interior.
MadScience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 12:22 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
StraightOuttaBallard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 185
Same thing happed to me on 02 E350

I can’t tell from your pics - is the 1” piece of electroplated box steel mounted to drop down your sway bar mount? the “drop down kit bracket”

Mine didn’t get installed (it’s not in the RIP instructions that I got) ...

After a few hundreds of miles death wobble developed - over time I basically I had to change out all of the tie rod ends & check everything you listed...

I noticed the pic on the Agile Instagram page ... Agile shipped a rear bumper & the RIP kit at the same time & mine was tossed thinking it had to do w/the crate for the Aluminumess rear bumper

Basically it through the alignment out of spec after getting alignments done post RIP install, then post trip Seattle to Jackson WY - it caused the sway bar to compresses the front end & w/ alignments it sort of rolled the front end accel for lack of better words
StraightOuttaBallard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 01:43 PM   #54
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 50
I had the same problem on my 04 EB quigley since new. It was a side to side swaying/tracking not to be confused with a wobble or body roll. I had the Agile RIP kit and 9 leaf rear springs installed (not to cure that problem but was hoping it would). It didn't help at all. I then talked John into changing the dampening rate of my Fox steering stabilizer to a lighter action. That helped quite a bit. I still was not satisfied with the handling so I decided to remove the steering dampener altogether just to try it. Wow, problem solved. Around town, highway speeds, and cornering. I have not done too much off roading since then but did not notice any adverse effects when I did. It's worth a try takes little time and no cost. Good luck. I am a happy camper now with stabilizer still off.
wahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2019, 08:13 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
nemesisnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 418
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoo View Post
I had the same problem on my 04 EB quigley since new. It was a side to side swaying/tracking not to be confused with a wobble or body roll. I had the Agile RIP kit and 9 leaf rear springs installed (not to cure that problem but was hoping it would). It didn't help at all. I then talked John into changing the dampening rate of my Fox steering stabilizer to a lighter action. That helped quite a bit. I still was not satisfied with the handling so I decided to remove the steering dampener altogether just to try it. Wow, problem solved. Around town, highway speeds, and cornering. I have not done too much off roading since then but did not notice any adverse effects when I did. It's worth a try takes little time and no cost. Good luck. I am a happy camper now with stabilizer still off.
That's a good idea, I was thinking about trying that, the stabilizer is so much stiffer and different than the oil type I had before that I wondered if it was forcing it out of alignment with turns or bumps and exacerbating the swaying that I am getting. I remember my installer saying how it was so stiff that we couldn't even compress it by hand.
nemesisnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 12:00 AM   #56
Orv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 619
Garage
Too stiff a stabilizer can also cause a "memory effect" where the steering sticks instead of returning to center. That can leave you swerving all over the road trying to correct for it.
__________________
N8SRE
1990 E-250 Sportsmobile w/ penthouse top, converted when new by SMB Texas.
Orv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 08:17 AM   #57
Senior Member
 
nemesisnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 418
Garage
Well that didn't work. Tried no stabilizer and it definitely was a bit more rowdy. I did feel like I was having more movement in my rear without the stabilizer (felt like it was more sensitive) but I really don't want to have to get a rear sway bar if possible. I wonder if I am somehow getting some lateral movement in my rear with the new leafs/shackles. I put on new OEM shackles but who knows, this new leaf pack is much beefier and stiffer than the crappy stock one I had and built to my weight. Tons of people run 6" lifts with no rear sway bar so I don't know what is happening and whether it's front or back biased, it's so hard to tell..
Guess I need to figure out a camera setup and see what's happening if possible. I talked to a fabricator yesterday about moving my axle forward with the Johnny Joints I have, adjusting my Castor and possibly switching to a high steer setup with new higher track bar mount and beefier sway bar setup with quick disconnects. He can do it all no problem, just waiting on the price quote. It does seem extreme but all those things would be nice to have in the long run and when I eventually go to 35-37" tires I will be all setup with my axle for less fender trimming and can actually adjust the Caster to 6 and that should help alot.
nemesisnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #58
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 5
Heya (hope this helps) -


As a rock crawler builder, I have experienced the death wobble in multiple builds. A GM engineer Maurice Olley (forefather of chassis design) discusses this, the causes and cures, in detail. We follow his direction and typically the fix works. The text is called Chassis Design: Principles and Analysis. Anyhow, in the book, the terms shimmy, caster wobble, and wheelfight all speak to the same problem. Lots of math, but the sources of the resonance all speak to changes in the static/dynamic caster, camber, and toe-in. One of these have changed in such a manner to induce a resonance, assuming your wheels and tires are balanced at speed.



In my experience, a clocking change (as you face the wheel) of the axle (upper/lower axle ball joint pair - as it typical with a lift) can induce a wobble as that vertical axis rotating-change goes from the vertical and aligns with the 'fore/aft' slope of wheel travel during wobble. This also increases the front wheels toe-in greater during wheel travel as they rise - a huge and repeatable wobble-offender.



Also: wider wheels and bigger tires generate a higher offset distance of the center of the contact patch of your tires with the caster and camber; worth checking.


Lastly, setting the toe of the front wheels more out as the wheels rise (see second paragraph) can help reduce this as well; talk with your suspension contact or alignment shop. too much toe-out causes accelerated tire wear.


The more you know...goodly luck. FWIW, my 2000 Dodge 3500 4WD is doing this badly now and that is caused by a balanced-but-bent front wheel....
Geesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 03:31 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
nemesisnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 418
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by REF View Post
I still owe you some pics of my setup...
Yes please, it would be super helpful as I am getting ready to bring this to a shop and if I end up doing everything including pushing the axle forward VS just the Johnny Joints and adjusting Caster only then I would love to see how BOR did your sway bar and new track bar mount. If you happen to be able to find out what sway bar you have that would be helpful too... Thanks!!
nemesisnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2019, 03:38 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
nemesisnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Sandy, Utah
Posts: 418
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by StraightOuttaBallard View Post
I can’t tell from your pics - is the 1” piece of electroplated box steel mounted to drop down your sway bar mount? the “drop down kit bracket”
Yes that is what they use as a spacer to account for the extra lift the new coils give. I am sure you could call up and have some sent out to you easily or fab up something similar.
nemesisnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sportsmobile SIP or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.