Agile RIP kit "gave" me death wobble???

[nemesisnight]

So I can't figure out what is going on and need help. I recently installed a full RIP kit from John at Agile Offroad including a full custom Rear leafpack (ditching the lift blocks) to the weight of my Van. While I was at it I had the shop also install some loose ball joints on my drivers side with Moog parts. So I am in all this with labor, shipping, etc nearly $4k. I have been super excited to finally get this upgrade as my van is 22 years old, my rear springs were de-arched and it was a rough ride but I never had speed wobble or felt unstable.

Now I have all new suspension and it rides great around town but anything over 55 and it gets pretty unstable, feels tippy, and occasionally if I get passed by a semi, let off the gas, hit uneven pavement or on some turns it starts to get a rocking speed wobble. Its terrifying and very stressful to drive long distances. I have talked to John and think I have done all the right things but am still having these issues and before I spend more money need advice.....

So far I have done all these things to try and fix the issue.

1- Replaced both track bar bushings with new ford OEM
2- Speed force balanced my wheels
3- Drag link is tight and tie-rod is brand new so nothing is loose there
4- All 4 control arms are new from Quigley as well (cracked one of my old C channel ones last summer)
5- Tires are in good condition, they are 285 KO2's with 90% tread rear and probably 75% front so no issues there
6- Front ball joints and Ujoints are tight.


I am sorta out of ideas, I do have loose steering but always have and it hasn't been an issue really. Maybe a new steering box would help but I wouldn't think it would cause these issues. I had them throw it on the alignment rack again thinking something had to be off but it was fine. I did loose some Caster from the RIP since it lifts the Van 2" and that cant be adjusted.

I talked to MSD over at CCV and we talked about cutting the end of the quigley arm off and welding a Jimmy Joint in with the threaded sleeve so that I can push my axle forward a little bit and adjust my Caster. They also make arms with the same joint for $1500 but it would be cheaper to keep the new arms I have and modify them. I thought it was a brilliant idea and suprised it hasn't been brought up more, I have only seen people use new arms from CCV and Agile prototyped some for awhile but don't sell them anymore.

Of course this would be helpful to adjust my Camber to +5 or 6 and move my axle about 1 to 1 1/2" forward since I would like to eventually put 35' tires on. But we go back to the issue of will more Camber really even fix my issue and why is it doing this now with better suspension and even though this suspension should be much more stiff than the overwheighted stock suspension I had, why does it feel tippy and unstable at speed.

I am at loss and don't want to keep spending money with no results but am out of ideas, any help???

[nemesisnight]

I decided to take it on a shakedown trip around 600 miles this last weekend just to test it out and play in the desert. The wobble was really bad the first 50 miles, then got a little better then would come and go. Sometimes I could cruise at 70-75 for awhile and feel sorta stable then all the sudden start slightly swaying, trying to correct it and stay in my lane then keep going fine, its really annoying, I'm not sure if it really got better or I just got more used to it but I wasn't able to relax the entire time and it took all my concentration.

[REF]

Responded to your PM as well.....
I mentioned your sway bar and potential of worn bushings, but it looks like they’re in good shape. Also suggested maybe try removing the sway bar altogether and see what the results are when you let the new suspension setup do it’s thing without getting bound up by the sway bar.
I’ll also mention here for others for reference that I have CCV’s adjustable torque arms with the axle moved up about 1 3/4”+/- and went with a larger sway bar with end links and now disconnects on a custom mount, eliminating bump steer. BOR set that up for me.
Good luck....

[carringb]

Have you inspected the track bar mount to the frame?

It does seem like you'd benefit from more caster. It also sounds like wobble is more of a sway, which suggests it's more of a geometry issue rather than loose parts. One thing that can happen when you lift the front is the introduction of more bump steer, since the drag link angle is steeper. About the only thing you can do to help here, besides going to crossover steering, is to increase front roll stiffness, by installing urethane bushings and/or a heavier sway bar. Especially since you have a pretty top-heavy van. And body roll with that steering setup will translate as steering input. Also, it looks like your drag link and track bar aren't parallel? hard to tell, it might just be skew in the pic. If those aren't parallel, and suspension travel will also translate as steering input.

[nemesisnight]

Originally Posted by REF

Responded to your PM as well.....
I mentioned your sway bar and potential of worn bushings, but it looks like they’re in good shape. Also suggested maybe try removing the sway bar altogether and see what the results are when you let the new suspension setup do it’s thing without getting bound up by the sway bar.
I’ll also mention here for others for reference that I have CCV’s adjustable torque arms with the axle moved up about 1 3/4”+/- and went with a larger sway bar with end links and now disconnects on a custom mount, eliminating bump steer. BOR set that up for me.
Good luck....

Yea, Agile sent me new bushings, my old ones were crazy worn and didn't even touch the sway bar and I didn't have these issues. My top rubber piece that holds the bar is kinda worn out though, maybe if I replaced that it might help? Does anyone know what part number that would be that quigley used? I don't see it on the build sheet I got from them.

I might have to go with the bigger sway bar and disconnects like you did, I am sure it wont be cheap....Just surprised I am having so many issues when everyone raves about the RIP kit, cant figure it out...

[nemesisnight]

Originally Posted by carringb

Have you inspected the track bar mount to the frame?

It does seem like you'd benefit from more caster. It also sounds like wobble is more of a sway, which suggests it's more of a geometry issue rather than loose parts. One thing that can happen when you lift the front is the introduction of more bump steer, since the drag link angle is steeper. About the only thing you can do to help here, besides going to crossover steering, is to increase front roll stiffness, by installing urethane bushings and/or a heavier sway bar. Especially since you have a pretty to-heavy van. And body roll with that steering setup will translate as steering input. Also, it looks like your drag link and track bar aren't parallel? hard to tell, it might just be skew in the pic. If those aren't parallel, and suspension travel will also translate as steering input.

Yes, I would say its feeling like a sway, almost like my suspension is rocking back and forth or feeling top heavy and it never did before at speed. It definitely feels like its coming from the front steering area. Is it even possible to go to crossover steering on an Quigley like this, I have no idea?? If so I would love any advice or help on how to do that.

Seems like a better or stiffer sway bar might be a good way to go to hopefully help....Maybe just getting the new upper rubber mount will help, I noticed the spacers that Agile sent for the sway bar mount right on a pinch weld in the frame so it also sits at an angle a little, might need to put a washer or something in to help straighten the mount. I will try and take a straight on pic of the drag link and track bar CarringB and see if they are parallel or not with the lift on it now, that pic is at an angle. I feel like the track bar mounts are pretty solid and seem to be in good condition, I thought for sure it was just going to be the track bar bushings as those were toast.

[mikracer]

Can you take it back to the alignment shop and have them max out the caster? They probably didn't touch it because its within spec. Just a thought.

[BroncoHauler]

Against what alignment specifications did the shop adjust your van to? Factory Ford, Agile recommended,...? Maybe they're one in the same, just throwing out ideas.




Herb

[Pntyrmvr]

Replace every single bushing on the vehicle.

Sounds drastic, but it worked for me.

[nemesisnight]

Originally Posted by mikracer

Can you take it back to the alignment shop and have them max out the caster? They probably didn't touch it because its within spec. Just a thought.

Caster is in a pic of the first post (2.5 L and 3.2 R is mine). Ideally John at Agile said they try to get at least 3.5-4.5 if not more, up to 5 or 6 is ideal from what I have read on these vans to feel more confident. Unfortunately with a 96 Quigley (or any Quigley with my axle) the control arms are not adjustable so my only options are an adjustable ball joint to maybe gain +1 degree if I am lucky, but that will also pull the wheels even closer to the front fender (not ideal or much adjustment). or I get custom adjustable control arms or modify the Quigley arms with Jimmy Joints (considering this).

The RIP kit does loose some Caster since it lifts it 2" over the Quigley spec 4" but how much Caster I lost I do not know.