Deaver Upgrade - Ride Height? - Page 2

Jeffrey · 05-09-2019, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavolpe79

Yeah, Jeff and team are awesome. Deaver is right in the heart of Santa Ana, so you’re in close proximity to Main Place Mall (ok), South Coast Plaza (very high end), Disneyland, Bowers Museum, Old Town Orange (called “the circle”), Old Town Tustin, Lyon’s Air Museum at John Wayne Airport, etc. You’ll definitely want to Uber since the distances are too great for walking really, and that area of Santa Ana can be a little rough around the edges.

Enjoy the improved ride! They helped mine a ton!

Thanks so much. Every positive report gives me confidence in my decision.

**daveb** · 05-09-2019, 02:13 PM

The only issue I had was after the install the lift increased about an inch or more. What tire size are you running Jeffery?

285 Tires looked way too small after that. The ride was much better due to the upgraded springs but I thought my vans stance looked weird IMO. So I went to 315's. That made for more height and added difficulty to climb in. I had the typical SMB running boards and it was hard to climb up. Hoop steps might be better if you have them. With 315's on 16" rims the ride is smoother but less responsive in turns. Pros and cons to this but it doesn't rattle on washboard like it had before. Aluminess had to deal with the spare tire mount that had to move left so the gates would closed.

My van weighed in about 11,500lbs prior and from what I gathered they adjust to your vans weight. So maybe your van won't lift as much. They did get it level at first but as the springs settled the rear sagged. Had to install an extra leaf.

The last thing to tell Jeff is to look over the track bar and make sure the shock mounts are upgraded from the stock SMB parts. One of my front mounts broke (SMB's fault) while off road. Deaver had to replaced my track bar with a larger model and that caused some issues years later where a hydraulic line was rubbing against it. I didn't feel it was a problem caused by Deaver, just get under and look how things have changed after they do the install.

And yes I would do it again...I hardly air down anymore.

Jeffrey · 05-09-2019, 04:59 PM

Thanks, Dave. I knew you had a heavy rig... I've run 315's on 16" wheels since the start. It's hard to find a selection of that size tire these days.

JoeH · 05-09-2019, 11:53 PM

Well here's another positive report with some caveats. I got the deaver package in Dec 2013. The springs are not hype, they really do improve the ride. And should for4k. I think my lift increased an inch or so. As I understand it the Deavers are afull progressive spring design.

Anyhow, two things. The Bilstiens are a questionable upgrade, at least from a durability standpoint. I've blown 3, the first twowithin 20k. It was when I tried towarranty the first one that I discovered that they are most likely off theshelf. Jeff advertises the package as having custom-valved shocks but you can buy them with the same valving profile from a number of vendors. For example,https://www.shockwarehouse.com/news/bilstein_5165.cfm

So, maybe check on that. It'sthe 7100 series that are custom-valved for customers at Bilstien and not the5165 series that Jeff specs. Maybe he worked with Bilstien early on, who knows. He didn't want to discuss it with me and only stated that they were valved before they left Bilstien (that is technically correct either way). Moving on from Deaver after some reluctant CS, the 2nd two shocks I worked with Bilstien directly and upgraded all of them to rebuildable 7100 series with a shrader valve. Also of note, if they are custom-valved, Bilstien does not offer a warranty. Here's the damping profile on mine if you dig into it this deep.

25-177503, 360/80 linear (Front)
25-177473, 360/240 digressive (rear)

That said, keep an eye on the u-bolt plate/lower shock mount. This is a known weak point with the SMB 4x4 conversion. Jeff cuts the shock mount and moves it downward to account for the increased stroke length of the Bilstein (10" I think). Now maybe it has nothing to do with reheating the plate but either way the U-bolt plate broke at the bend (where it bends from holding/clamping the spring pack) downward to the shock mount, right at the edge of the two holes drilled for the U-bolts. Maybe the simple act of drilling the holes created a stress riser but Sportsmobile now fabricates the plate with a gusset for added strength. However, when I had them send out new plates they were poorly fabricated and one of the drilled holes was too close to the bump stop landing and a washer on top wouldn’t fit and you couldn’t get a socket on the head of the u-bolt. WTF? Plan B was to have my fabricator here in Flagstaff skip the u-bolt plate all together and simply weld a shock tab to the Dynatrac front axle housing. That also helped with a little more up-travel while still allowing full compression.

Hope that helps. Maybe see if SMB still has some plates since you have a 2007; or ask Jeff to weld in a gusset similar to SMB to strengthen the plate.

Jeffrey · 05-10-2019, 08:46 AM

Hi Joe, glad to have your extensive experience at hand. I will share most of this with Jeff, unless you object. Thanks.

JoeH · 05-10-2019, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Hi Joe, glad to have your extensive experience at hand. I will share most of this with Jeff, unless you object. Thanks.

Yeah, no problem although he did not take kindly to my asking questions about his valving. I understand that 4x4 tuning is a rather secretive business and tuners don't readily share that info. But there is no warranty on custom-valved shocks from Bilstien. I got the run-around going through Jeff to warranty the first shock. He simply sold me a new one to get me on the road. But there more I dug into it the more it appears to me that they are simply off-the-shelf. He might be picking the valving to work with his package but it doesn't appear to me that it's something he worked closely with Bilstien with to arrive at the perfect damping profile for our rigs.

Bilstein's generic recommendion is 360/80 for full size front solid axle 4WD w/ coil spring. Not sure how the spring rate is different with leaf springs but all loaded up I'm 4600lb over the front axle and 5400lb over the rear axle. From googling around the 400/100 profile is very popular with the rover community, heavy sprung and top heavy when geared up for offroading and camping.

It might be worth asking why he spec's a damping profile that is linear on the front and digressive on the rear. From what I understand, digressive is better for the street. Thedigressive profiles offer better low speed control for cornering and handling,but the resistance tapers off the faster the damper cycles. The linear profilesoffer less roll stability, but ramp up on force the faster the dampers cycle.The linear profiles can be considered progressive and are better suited for off roading.

Sorry for another long-winded post but for $4k I think it is a fair question to ask how the shocks are re-valved to work with his springs. Are the damping profiles the same front and rear? If not, what is the reasoning? And lastly, what is the warranty on the shocks.

JWA · 05-13-2019, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeH

Sorry for another long-winded post but for $4k I think it is a fair question to ask how the shocks are re-valved to work with his springs. Are the damping profiles the same front and rear? If not, what is the reasoning? And lastly, what is the warranty on the shocks.

This is great info and I'm sure not the least be long-winded or superfluous at all. In fact I'm thinking its very, very valuable for anyone considering a similar upgrade. $4K IS a lot of money for anything and its only smart to spend it wisely.

I don't own or plan owning anything 4x4 but even so this is interesting to read---I for one thank you for sharing your experience.

JoeH · 05-15-2019, 05:21 PM

Here's a nice write-up on the u-bolt plate issue. etbadger doesn't post much on here anymore but his website is a wealth of info. BadgerTrek: Sportsmobile 4x4 Drive Train and Suspension

arctictraveller · 05-15-2019, 09:11 PM

Why not consider Fox's from Agile? Ramsey developed the valving years ago for our vans, and by all reports, everyone has been very happy, I know I have. John worked at Fox for years and has tons of experience valving the shocks, and they are rebuild-able.

Zappo · 05-15-2019, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeH

Yeah, no problem although he did not take kindly to my asking questions about his valving. I understand that 4x4 tuning is a rather secretive business and tuners don't readily share that info. But there is no warranty on custom-valved shocks from Bilstien. I got the run-around going through Jeff to warranty the first shock. He simply sold me a new one to get me on the road. But there more I dug into it the more it appears to me that they are simply off-the-shelf. He might be picking the valving to work with his package but it doesn't appear to me that it's something he worked closely with Bilstien with to arrive at the perfect damping profile for our rigs.

Bilstein's generic recommendion is 360/80 for full size front solid axle 4WD w/ coil spring. Not sure how the spring rate is different with leaf springs but all loaded up I'm 4600lb over the front axle and 5400lb over the rear axle. From googling around the 400/100 profile is very popular with the rover community, heavy sprung and top heavy when geared up for offroading and camping.

It might be worth asking why he spec's a damping profile that is linear on the front and digressive on the rear. From what I understand, digressive is better for the street. Thedigressive profiles offer better low speed control for cornering and handling,but the resistance tapers off the faster the damper cycles. The linear profilesoffer less roll stability, but ramp up on force the faster the dampers cycle.The linear profiles can be considered progressive and are better suited for off roading.

Sorry for another long-winded post but for $4k I think it is a fair question to ask how the shocks are re-valved to work with his springs. Are the damping profiles the same front and rear? If not, what is the reasoning? And lastly, what is the warranty on the shocks.

That’s a good ? On bilstien warranty,I had deaver flatten/relax the leaf pack on my 2004 Chevy Express 2500,then add a leaf so it would sit level/not stink bug with 24 inch wheels.i got bilstien shocks x4 and added airbags on my own for when I was trailering.if deaver does special valving in house then I guess you would have to get warranty shock sent to deaver first and pay shipping to your place.that would be another question how much to valve the shock if it needs to be replaced.ive had my bilstiens for 15 years and they have taken a beating with the low profile tires and no leaks or problems!