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Old 03-19-2008, 05:00 PM   #11
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Well, I got my new swing arm back from the powder coaters and here’s my write-up on what went wrong and how I’m fixing it to date. I think this might get a little long, but I want to document the problem and what I, and Aluminess, have done to correct it - I hope.
First off, here’s two photos of the cracks that developed in the swing arm with a 315 tire and lots of washboard driving.







I feel the problem occurred due to several things. First off, Dave at Aluminess told me that the problem just started occurring when people began using tires larger then 285s. Obviously, the more weight the greater the chance of breaking something. On all of our setups, the latch is doing a lot of the supporting as the van is bouncing around. As the latch becomes a little loose, it allows the whole setup to bang around a little. On mine, you could push in and out on the tire and there was at least 1/8â€

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Old 03-19-2008, 05:39 PM   #12
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Scatter,

Thanks. That's very helpful. Will Aluminess be selling a "fix it yourself upgrade kit" that includes the new bolts and small bumper and support things?

On another note... you sure you want the sidewalls of your tire potentially rubbing/vibrating against the albeit smooth and large diameter posts in three places? I'm not voicing an opinion either way, but if there's relative motion between the tire sidewalls and the rack that might be a problem.

Ken
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:26 PM   #13
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"Long winded" and accurate is always better than brief and confusing. Besides, if we're on the internet you gotta figure we got the time. Thanks for the write up.
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Old 03-19-2008, 07:46 PM   #14
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Scatter,

Thanks for that post. I now have a better understanding of the issue too.

BUT I have a question,....

The fix is really not a fix as much as a band-aid. The real problem sounds like it remains with the hinge and its geometry. If I think about a door and its latch, I would not expect any of the weight of the door to be held at the latch, but the latch does keep the door shut. If I found this problem on a door, I would want to fix it by working on the hinges to change the geometry and remove the weight from the latch.

Obviously the hinge side of the swing arms would be more difficult to work on, but has this been looked at?

I need to check the swing arms on my SMB sitting at SMB TX. I know the box arm has the three hinges and is beefed up, but I do not know about the tire side....
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #15
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Scatter:

Just a quick comment about your tire being supported in three places using the tire carrier.

Many years ago, I had a 1986 Toyota 4Runner. Like many trucks that mount the tires underneath the rear onto the frame, it is only supported in two places. Of course, to keep the tire from rattling, you simply secure the tire tighter against the frame. Well, what happened to me was the tire side walls were damaged in the two areas where the tire made contact with the frame. I never saw it until I needed to use the spare. Dunlop would not warranty the tire because they said it was damaged from the way it was mounted, not a defective tire problem. Keep in mind that your tire mount frame is much smaller than my 4Runner frame was.

My fix was to put a piece of 3/4" plywood between the tire & the frame so that the complete sidewall was resting against the plywood. I never had any trouble with my spare tire having sidewall damage after that. Just inspect your tire from time to time to make sure that it is ok.

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Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #16
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Scatter:

Just a quick comment about your tire being supported in three places using the tire carrier.

Many years ago, I had a 1986 Toyota 4Runner. Like many trucks that mount the tires underneath the rear onto the frame, it is only supported in two places. Of course, to keep the tire from rattling, you simply secure the tire tighter against the frame. Well, what happened to me was the tire side walls were damaged in the two areas where the tire made contact with the frame. I never saw it until I needed to use the spare. Dunlop would not warranty the tire because they said it was damaged from the way it was mounted, not a defective tire problem. Keep in mind that your tire mount frame is much smaller than my 4Runner frame was.

My fix was to put a piece of 3/4" plywood between the tire & the frame so that the complete sidewall was resting against the plywood. I never had any trouble with my spare tire having sidewall damage after that. Just inspect your tire from time to time to make sure that it is ok.

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Old 03-20-2008, 07:56 AM   #17
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Scatter, did Alumniness fix the repairs on the cuff or did they charge you? Also, like mentioned, we also had a sidwall failure on a Toyota spare (Landcruiser) because of the way the spare was mounted tight against steel. If you are rotating through the spare then I can't imagine a problem. However, if the spare is the spare for its whole life, then I don't think having the sidewall compressed against anything is good.

Alumniness makes great bumpers and the swingarms are nice but for one problem, they are alumn. Alumn is not the right metal for the swingarm app, in my opinion. Alumn flexes and then fatigues much quicker than steel. Weight savings is nice but I prefer reliability. I think all problems could be fixed if the swingarms where made of mild steel or 4130. New welder on order but don't think I'll attempt fabbing new arms just yet. Might get some gussets and beef things up a bit though, in addition to the hocky pucks. I'm in Baja right now, so next time you guys hear from me I might be typing while under the influence of tequilia and Pacifico.
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #18
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Lots of good comments - thanx guys and I'll try to address them.

About the tire sidewall hitting on the arm. I think you’re right-on here. Bad area to damage a tire. Mine is not pushing in very far at that spot, but I think I'll space it out so it's not a problem. A piece of wood or something to distribute the load would help, but I think I'll eliminate the potential problem and just space it out. (the tire, not me – on the other hand… ) As far as the other two areas in the second photo, the hinges are pushing on the tread so it shouldn't be a problem. I just am trying to eliminate and vibration from the heavy tire being transmitted to the support assembly.

I also agree that aluminum is not as good as steel for this, but the weight savings is really something to consider. As far as I know, this has only been a problem for a few of us. I think that by adding some support to the end of the swing arm that the problem will be eliminated - hope, hope, hope.

I agree that the hinges should be what supports the load, but I think it’s asking too much in this case. Actually, it’s not the hinges where I see the problem. I believe the vertical arm coming up off the bumper is flexing and allowing the latch end to move a little. This movement is only resisted by the latch and it wasn’t designed for that. I’m hoping that by adding the puck supports that the problem will be solved. I’d actually like to see the latch replaced with a draw latch like this.




Problem is finding a place to mount it. The rear cover is right where it would attach and it’s not strong enough for that. I guess that at this point I’ll see how my new version is working and if I see the latch and pin loosening up, I'll get right on it before the problem exacerbates (wooee – I’ve been wanting to use that word)

As far as Aluminess goes, they were super!! I’m pretty sure they have a shoulder bolt upgrade kit and as I mentioned are working on the puck support upgrade. I think the best way for everyone to go if you have concerns in this area is to just give Dave a call. He’ll definitely work with you.

By the way deminimis, where in Baja are you?
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Old 03-21-2008, 11:53 AM   #19
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I talked to Dave at Aluminess yesterday to ask about a combined bolt and puck-like upgrade. He said they SHOULD have something in about two weeks.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:53 PM   #20
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Right this minute, I'm in front of a computer. Fortunately, that computer is in San Jose del Cabo. Only 90 degrees here today and very sunny. Downside is my beer warms quicker in this weather,so must drink it faster.

Going to gusset the latch (once I weld the missing one back on when I get back).

There's a Pacifico with my name on it that needs attention, so adios for know.
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