Sound Deadening Project

[Sierrasclimber]

We are planning a major sound deadening project right now which has about three phases. The real ultimate goal is to quiet the front cabin while driving to decrease the volume of our voices when talking and decrease the required volume of the stereo.

Phases:
1. Front door noise dampening mat and add insulation at bottom of door
2. Dog house noise dampening and insulation
3. Noise dampening mat the center floor space (we have a dropped floor with linoleum)

Our dog house before


Hope fully I will have some after photos as we do it.

[Sierrasclimber]

Research:
First as for all projects we had to do some research and pick our products. Way back in the day I had friends who were into stereo competitions so I'm familiar with dynamat and such products and there cost. So we thought we would use generic EVA dynamat from Mcmaster on the front doors, center space floor, and outside of the dog house. At $17 for 12 sq ft it seemed like a good deal but for 4 sheets (48 sq ft) and shipping that is $83 and only a DLF (Dampening Loss Factor or ALF Acoustic Loss Factor) of 0.1 it seems kind of ineffective. I knew Dynamat xtreme was $140 for 36 sq ft so what is the value difference. So I fully geeked out on research of products and this is what I found:

Some important items to know:
1. Some cheaper products are relabeled roofing products.
2. The cheaper products are asphalt based and so have odors when they heat up and are ineffective when heated up.
3. Noise products break into two categories;
A. Vibration Dampening (best for applying to sheet metal and can be effective even in small strategic placements)
B. Noise Barriers (must have complete continuous coverage to be affective)
4. All the better products have a foil. Sold on rolls or as sheets.
A. Some retailers claim if it is sold on rolls it must be inferior as higher quality product with be ruined if rolled

If you want to gain some quick understanding about products watch these videos which showcase secondskinaudio.com products:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR1Jucuas_k

www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PjUZbGeWM

Just the first 2 minutes give you a good idea what you are going for with the treated and untreated cymbal.

Product suppliers:
Secondskinaudio www.secondskinaudio.com
Dynamat www.dynamat.com
B-quiet.com http://www.b-quiet.com/
eDead www.edesignaudio.com
McMaster http://www.mcmaster.com/#9709t39/=38dpu1
Raamat www.raamaudio.com

[Sierrasclimber]

Phase 1: Vibration Damping Products for use on doors and any other sheet metal we can expose:
The unit is called Acoustic Loss Factor (ALF) which is the same as Damping Loss Factor (DLF). The range extends from 0 to 1, with 1 being the best.
Product name - ALF value; Price for typical purchase and amount of product; $/sq ft delivered
This is roughly in a ranked order quality which roughly correlates to cost:
1. damplifier pro - ALF?; $175 for 36 sq ft; $4.86
2. dynamat xtreme - 0.42; $140 for 36 sq ft (9 - 18"x32") ; $3.89
3. eDead 120 - ? ; sold by sq ft; $3.50
4. damplifier - ?; $115 for 40 sq ft; $2.88
5. RAAMmat BXT II ?; $115 - 37.5 sq ft; $3.07
6. B-quiet Ultimate - 0.39; $117 for 50 sq ft (1' x 50'); $2.34
7. RAAMmat BXT ?; $134 -15" x 50'; 62.5 sq ft, $2.14
8. eDead 80 - ? ; $2.34 sq ft
9. B-quiet extreme - 0.29; $91.5 for 50 sq ft; $1.83
10. Regular dynamat - 0.14; price?
11. McMaster Mineral - 0.13; $115 for 36 sq ft (4 - 24" x 54"); $2.78
12. McMaster EVA - 0.1; $81.8 for 48 sq ft (4 - 32" x 54"); $1.70
Product descriptions:
damplifier pro - viscoelastic butyl rubber 0.68 lbs/sq ft; Foil 6 mils 80 mils (2.0 mm) (12" x 20")
damplifier - Viscoelastic butyl rubber 0.48 lbs/sq ft 4 mils foil 50 mils (1.3mm) (12" x 24")
Dynamat xtreme - elastomeric butyl and aluminum 1.7 mm thick, 0.45 lg/sq ft
RAAMmat BXT II 4 mil soft aluminum finish, ~0.49 lb/sqft, 250 degree temp rating
RAAMmat BXT $134 premium Butyl mat 60 mil; 2 mill aluminum; 0.35 lb/sqft; 15" x 50'; 62.5 sq ft, 300F degree rated; $2.14
B-Quiet Ultimate butyl based is 1.6mm (60mil) thick, weighs 0.35 lb/sq. ft. comes in 1 foot wide 50 sq. ft. rolls
B-Quiet® Extreme - Rubberized asphalt; 1.15 mm (45 mil) weighs 0.30lb/sq. ft., comes in 1 foot wide rolls and is available in two sizes: 12 and 50 sq. ft. rolls
eDead 120 - ? 115 mils 1 mil litewarp 5 mil aluminum; Butyl Mat
eDead 80 -
McMastercar
install thread with pics http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4078069
McMaster EVA ethylene vinyl acetate 2 mm (79 mil)
McMaster Mineral filled vinyl 50 mils (1.3 mm)

Thoughts: Well I think Number 4-6 seem like the best bang for your buck. I pull for the little guy so this sways me away from dynamat to RAAMat and Secondskinaudio. In the end Secondskinaudio interests me more so I'm thinking damplifier. However, my co-pilot is a tech nerd and she is thinking just go all the way for damplifier pro. I think there is a post else where about who makes the decision in a household.

[Sierrasclimber]

Phase 2.Hoodliner Research
1. Dynamat Hoodliner $60, 54"x32"x3/4"; 0.13 lb/sq ft; 1 mil aluminum; polyether, urethane-based, thermo-acoustic foam; $5.00/sq ft
http://www.dynamat.com/technical_specs_hoodliner.html
2. Motor Mat Pro $40; 24"x54"x3/8"; 0.31 lb/sq ft; $5.56/sq ft
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/thermal- ... o.php#tab5
2.A Second skin seems to take this all a step further with additional products like Heatwave Pro a thermal barrier.
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/thermal- ... o.php#tab5
3. Super Sound proofing $97 for 1" x 48" x 48" closed cell; closed cell expanded vinyl-nitrile foam; 225F rating; $6.06/sq ft
http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/hoodliner.htm
4. Cascade $100; 37"x54"x3/8" thick; $7.21/sq ft
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowde ... tab=2#Tabs
5. Badger way; $13 Walmart sleeping pad; Home Depot duct insulation $20; 5/8" barrier; $2.75
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1 ... ogId=10053

Thoughts: The Secondskinproducts really give you a tear off the old rebuild with technology bionic doghouse. With our doghouse application it seems the best application would be a layer of damplifier, a layer of Motor Mat Pro, and a layer of Heatwave Pro. This gives a 0.8" thick barrier which weighs 1.0 lb/sq ft. However given the doghouse is plastic the damplifier layer maybe unneeded.

However, our application size is about 33.5"x55.5" so I think putting down a layer of damplifier, then a dynamat hoodliner, and reinstalling the existing heat blanet is probably where we will go but we are not set yet and going to talk to secondskinaudio to see if they will give us a discount if we order a few more things from them.

[Sierrasclimber]

Phase 3. Rear linoleum flooring
1. Secondskinaudio Luxury Liner Pro; $50 - 24"x54"; 1.2 lb/sq ft; $5.55/sq ft
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/noise-ba ... er-Pro.php
2. Neoprene closed cell foam; $46 - 80" x 48"; $1.725
http://www.closedcellfoams.com/neoprene.html
3. Walmart sleeping pad closed cell foam; $12 - 72" x 19"; $1.37

Thoughts: Our application size is 30"x64 so I think our best bet is Neoprene as it will be a single sheet and durable.

[Sierrasclimber]

Phase 4. Additional Project phase added:
After watching the video I realized for our van we needed to do some work on the wheel well space so we are thinking we will try some secondskinaudio Spectrum Sludge.

http://www.secondskinaudio.com/sound-de ... sludge.php

Our wheel wells are about 1' by 4'. So one gallon should get us through three 1 mm applications and have about 0.4 gallons left to use maybe inside the front doors or anywhere else we can find to slop it.

Note: this seems like an ideal SMB DIY project for $60 you can get a gallon of this stuff, go to town on your wheel wells, slop some in your doors, and engine heat shield. In a weekend time you could have a serious effect on your quality of ride. IMHO

I'll let you know how it goes.

[Gulliver]

Wow! Amazingly detailed research, well done! And thanks for sharing.

Dying to know how it's turned out for you?

Did you ever find out what the ALF/DLF factors are for Damplifier Pro?

With a DLF almost as high as 'Dynamat Extreme' and 1/2 the price of 'Damplifier Pro', I'm curious to know why you didn't go with the 'B-Quiet Ultimate'?

[geoffff]

I found this site useful a while back (I haven't read it recently) for learning about the whole concept. The site seemed impartial. http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com.

-- Geoff

[Sierrasclimber]

Unfortunately, we had to take a weekend in Yosemite and a week in Hawaii this month which has caused my projects to languish and I have not gotten to the installation of this project.

Guess I never posted up what we ended up getting.
50 ft of damplifier $99+$30
9 sqft of Luxury liner pro $40 + adhesive $7
1 gallon spectrum sludge $60
ALPS Mountaineering Foam Sleeping Mat - X Large 30" x 77" x 0.6" $27
Roll of reflectex $34
Scosche SPL1000 Sound meter $26

So we are about $300 into the project and I feel good about what we got. I'm really impressed with the luxury liner pro. It is very heavy and dense and I'm imagining will be very effective. The plan for the doghouse is two layers of damplifier, then luxury liner pro, and then a layer or two of reflectex if it will fit.

We tried to do some testing with the sound meter but it seems more like just a funny toy. It takes instantaneous decibel levels and holds a max since it was reset but bumps in the road shoot the max way up and the instantaneous reading is hard to gage. A meter which did averaging would probably be much more appropriate. I at least plan to take a reading of the parked idle before and after.

Probably the biggest reason that I ended up going with second skin products is it just seemed like a small business and I pull for small businesses over big companies like dynamat. I'm pretty sure it is owned and operated out of Arizona by Ant who was who we placed our order through and was friendly and knowledgeable. I also like his YouTube videos which show doing installs and there products clearly. I guess the B-quiet product just seemed cheaper and might be more asphalt based and I HATE the smell of tar so got a product I felt was more quality.

I'm hoping to get the install done soon but might not be til the Thanksgiving holiday.

[Sierrasclimber]

So we finally moved forward on this project. I'll try to get some photos up; only have a few.

THE WORK

Rear floor-
The first item of some dampening for our back floor was easy. I got a foam sleeping pad from REI which was 30" wide same as the floor and cut it to length.

Front doors-
Next I started on the doors. I tore off the vapor barrier inside the door and lined the inside of exterior piece of the door with 4 large pieces of damplier. I manage to cut my finger on the second sheet I laid pretty good. Be warned the aluminum is sharp. Then I cut a piece to span all round my door speaker and cut a hole in the piece for the speaker to fit through. I also added a foam baffle to my speaker as my bass was kind of weak from what I thought the speakers could produce. The baffle will give the speaker a resonance space for bass and improve the sound.

Doghouse-
I got the doghouse off and tore off the original insulation blanket. Then spent some time cutting down the old glue and plastic to lay down the damplier. I put down something like 1.5 layers of damplier. It attached pretty easy but was hard to get shoved in the tighter spaces and rolling would often tare the aluminum sheet. Then with the help of my copilot we made a plan for the luxury liner pro. We had a 9 sq ft piece which was just enough. We cut it into 5 pieces (center strip, upper left, upper right, lower left and lower right). It fit together pretty good. Then we spray adhesived it to the damplier using the secondskin spray adhesive. We let it set for about 30 minutes and then worked on a reflextex layer which became 4 pieces. We then spray adhesived this on with the remained of the bottle. Just enough. SO we now have 1.5 layers of damplifier, a layer of luxury liner pro, and a layer of reflextex.

THE CHANGEs
Floor - Not sure it really makes much sound difference but is nice to stand on and extra sleeping pad never hurts.

Doors-The biggest noticeable improvement from this is that the door used to close and kind of clang and rattle. Now the door make more of just a thunk sound. It is a noticeable change.

Doghouse-definately feels cooler to the touch formerly driving at times you could not put your foot on the doghouse for more than a few minutes or it would get way too hot.

LAST THOUGHTS-I spent a lot of hours planning this project but only really took me about 6 hours to exicute. The driving sound is better the stereo is cleaner and crisper sounding and it does seem over all easier to talk which driving. The project was worth it and my last interest would be to get some insulation inside the front doors maybe I'll put a layer of reflectex on top of the damplifier.