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Old 10-25-2007, 04:01 PM   #1
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110v Build Question

Before I make a final decision on the electrical system I would like to run this scenario buy the group and let me know if you think I am making a big irreversible mistake.

I am considering eliminating the 110v system in its entirety. The only 110v item that I can foresee using is a MV oven. (Samsung actually makes a 12v one but it is very expensive compared to a cheap Costco MW.)

I’m thinking to delete 110v outlets, wiring and load center, along with the 2000w optional inverter. In its place, go with the SMB standard CONVERTER/CHARGER. For the MW Oven I would add back in a smaller 1,000w Zantrex inverter adjacent to the MW oven. In the unlikely event I do need to plug another 110v device in, the 1000w inverter has two plugs. I would use something like an IGO http://www.igo.com/home.asp for charging cell phones, cameras, laptop, etc.

Since the wire-ways would be eliminated, there is really no (easy) going back in this decision once its built.

I can see it might hurt the resale value, but (right now) that is of little concern.

Battery charging would be accomplished via solar, or plugging an extension chord directly into the Converter/Charger.

So the big question to the group is: How often do you really use the 110v system, and would it change your life if you didn’t have it?

... Charlie
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:41 PM   #2
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110v system

Actually Charlie, the only time we plug in a 110 volt device, is when we sweep out the van with a handy vac after a particularly dirty trip, maybe three or four times this past year. And that's when we have the SMB plugged into shore power. We could use a really long extension cord, but plugging in in the van itself is more convient.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:55 PM   #3
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Charlie - I can't speak towards the inverter, but I will recommend that you keep the standard 110v outlets. There is no reason to remove them and they can be used when plugged into shore power. I believe it is only a $40 credit if you remove them. We do not have a 100v inverter in our van.
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Old 10-25-2007, 06:44 PM   #4
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We went the same way as Sdwindansea did. Not enough credit to make it worth while, it's good for resale, and handy when plugged into shore power when at home. We don't use much 110v, and I just have a 175 watt cig lighter plug-in inverter. Only used it a couple of times, but it's so small I decided why not have it in the rig. Modified sine wave, but works for all we need.
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Old 10-25-2007, 07:46 PM   #5
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My van had the outlets only and I added the Xantrex later, which was relatively simple because all the outlets were already there.

I don't see any reason to eliminate the outlets from the build because it's an irreversible decision and I'm unclear what you would gain.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:34 PM   #6
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The difference is a little more than $40. This is from SMB today.

We can delete the entire 110 volt system (no exterior connection, no outlets, no distribution panel, etc...). We would install the converter/charger and you can run your own 110 volt extension cord to it and plug it in when at home or at a campground. We have to install the converter/charger so that the battery can get fully charged. This described method will save you about $1,271.

The delta savings is almost double that, as my original concept called for the Zantrex 2000w inverter. The reasoning here is I seriously doubt that I will ever use the 110v system. If I can get this $1,271 savings, AND not have to buy the $1,106 Zantrex 2000w inverter I can buy a few more goodies that I do want and need. So I save $2,377 up front, I do have to buy a $75 Costco MW oven and a $200 1000w Zantrex inverter and also pay SMB to run a battery cable to the MW location.

Make a little more sense now? (Unless I am missing soemthing)

... Charlie
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:43 PM   #7
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Well also if you're only running a MW why go with the Xantrex? Surely there is a cheapo invertor that will put out the watts for your MW.

You might even be able to put the invertor in behind the MW, in the same space (would be possible with the 50 probably) and run a permanent extension cord to somewhere accessible.

Definitly have SMB run the batt cables to the expected invertor location.
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Old 10-26-2007, 10:38 AM   #8
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I'm blown away with the amount of savings SMB quoted with the 110 deleat. I can't see anything in my rig that would come even close to costing $1200. Whatever, I would drop it too.

Check out the micro you're getting to be sure it will run on the inverter you're thinking about. Most low to mid-range inverters are modified sine wave, not true sine wave. That's OK for most stuff, but some things just don't work well without the true sine wave. Be a bummer to get your new rig and find out that the only thing the micro will cook is itself....
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:57 PM   #9
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110 Volt build question

charlie56 thinks that by not having an external 110 ACV connection, not having 110 ACV wiring, not having 110 ACV outlets, & not 110 ACV having load center, and in addition still have the Sportsmobile Converter/Charger, he will save $1271. Not likely! What are you going to do, run a extension cord through a window and connect to the Converter? Bad idea!
Why would you install a Converter/Charger, and then install a high powered Inverter later (The high quality Inverters that I have seen also include a Charger)?
You generally need to charge the auxillary battery. You need an external shore 110ACV connection to the Converter/Charger. The only things that you can eliminate is the AC outlets. You will not save $1271. You might save $40.
Your microwave would like to be connected to a 110 ACV primary source and not to a less efficient Inverter. For that matter you can forget buying an Inverter. The only thing that you would appear to use it for is microwave cooking while dry camping. I have never missed using a microwave oven.
Solor power, unless you have a lot of panels, will not easily charge the batteries.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:45 PM   #10
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Terry

I almost feel like I need to apologize for my bad idea. You may be right, it wouldnt be the first bad idea I ever had. But perhaps if you understood my concept, the idea it wouldnt sound so bad after all.

I do not intend to camp at or at least utilize the shore-power at developed camp sites. Things may change but for the most part this is a boondock rig. The only 110v appliance I intend to use while camping is a microwave oven. No 110v Starcool, or 110v refrigerator.

Im waiting delivery on a $180 Xantrex 1000w modified sine-wave inverter to power the MW oven while boondocking. It does not have a charger. It does have two outlets built-in and allows for hardwiring in remote outlets. I will mount behind the microwave, and I probably will hardwire in one outlet under the sink where one is typically found in the 50 floor plan. This one additional outlet should fulfill my needs if I need to recharge my portable DVD player or run a small vacuum, etc. This "stand alone" inverter also has a remote on-off switch so I will keep it turned off for the most part.

To top off the batteries I am having SMB install one 130w solar panel now and may add another myself if I find that one isnt keeping up. SMB will install a converter/charger. (Its in their basic system) If the panel(s) work as expected, coupled with the alternator, I should not have to use the charger portion. In the future if I find myself needing to physically plug-in for battery top-off or to use 110v shore power to convert to 12v, I can always add in the exterior outlet and connect it to the converter. If Im not going to use it, why would I want a plug penetrating the shell?

I have purchased an Isotherm Cruise 130 ASU refrigerator and will have SMB install it. This unit is reported to use 1/3rd the power that the Norcolds do. It runs only on 12v not 110v. I expect (hope) it will significantly reduce the draw down of the house battery and it eliminated the need for a 110v wired circuit. Time will tell if this one was a bad idea (big expense) as well. Another benefit of the refrigerator is that even though it has a larger interior capacity than the 4 cf Norcold, it is physically smaller. This will allow SMB to add a small additional cabinet that is not available with the Norcold 4cf and the "50" plan.

The quote in red from my earlier post citing the savings was not invented, it is a direct valid quote from SMB West. The major portion of the $1,271 comes from the fact that SMB doesnt have to pay the labor cost to wire up the 110v system. Couple that with the material savings in wire, load center, outlets, and exterior connection, and it adds up. Combine that with the cost of a 2000w inverter/charger that is typically added and I would be paying thousands of dollars for a 110v system to power what is essentially a $50 appliance? To me that sounds like a real bad idea. Id rather have a set of lockers than the ability to plug in shore power to run a 1500w hair dryer.

Personally I dont think its a bad idea for what I want to accomplish.
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