AC vs/or DC?

[rob_gendreau]

As with most things SMB, you need to be brutally realistic about what you need.

Before you decide AC vs DC or combo of the two, take a look at what appliances and devices you really need. REALLY need. And your power use and storage. And how you camp.

Unless you're in campgrounds with hookups, or run a gennie a lot, most of your power is gonna be DC. Converting to AC is less efficient, although it does help over long wire runs. But you should avoid long wire runs.

If you decide you have to have a microwave or A/C for example, that may strongly influence your choices.

Most of the new electrical devices that are proliferating are DC, and fairly low power. They won't push you to AC but they do require bazillions of outlets. Built in USB is a good idea. I'd also suggest you look into Anderson powerpoles for DC connections; powerwerx.com is a good source for them. I use them a lot in everything from battery cables to LEDs.

[Spoolin]

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! After reading all the replies and posts, looks like DC would be the better option for my particular needs. I don't ever/or haven't yet gone to any camp sites looking for hook-ups. Most all my camping is done dry. I was thinking about all the things (or few things really) that I need to run and the list is as follows:

-Fridge (looking at the Engel website as we speak)
-Microwave (a few DC options I take it?)
-Water pump
-Space heater (I'm guessing propane would be the best option)
-Plugs for Laptops, camera's and phone chargers (USB seems like a must)
-LED lighting
-Fans

So really, the only thing I would need A/C for would be for the laptops/phones/camera's and sounds like a properly sized inverter would more or less do the trick. I was planning on setting up a small desk work area right around/near the passenger seat so I can consolidate all the A/C equipment to that area.

I think any long wiring I have to run I will do it beneath the cab, and even then I don't think I'll run it very far. My floors are rhino lined so there isn't that much area to hide/run wires anyways.

I do plan on getting a portable generator here but it's more for running power tools and an air compressor, so I could plug those items straight into the portable genny. I guess if I plan on using the genny to charge the house batteries I would have to get a converter. So with those appliances/Devices, and no real need to hook up to shore power, DC sounds like it would be the best option right?

[4MacFam]

So really, the only thing I would need A/C for would be for the laptops/phones/camera's and sounds like a properly sized inverter would more or less do the trick. I was planning on setting up a small desk work area right around/near the passenger seat so I can consolidate all the A/C equipment to that area.

The USB plugins should work great for charging phones, ipods, ipads. Just make sure they are powerful enough for the device. Not all of those USB plugins are the same.

I bought a cig lighter plugin charger for my MacBook Pro. It was hard to find, but works great. The cameras will be a little trickery, as most of their chargers are AC only. I wonder....just checked Amazon and they do have a DC charger for the Canon cameras. Crap, another thing to buy.

My wife and I really wanted to have AC so the inverter was a no brainer. I just made myself a cup a coffee with the Hamilton Beach coffee maker. It takes the kcups or grounds. It takes up 1 1/2 times the space of our perk coffee pot. Turned the inverter on, put the water in, flipped it on. noticed it drew 52amps, but my coffee was done in minutes, no coffee pot to wash, just toss the kcup, turn the inverter off, done. We also do the same for the microwave. Do we "need" it. No I could lite the stove, take about 20 minutes to perk some coffee, wash the pot, but I'm on vacation so some things become a need.

I also enjoy my music both on the road and in camp (I keep the level down so I don't disturb anyone). I have a nice 2 din head unit, rear view camera, amp for the speakers, and a powered amp. All this draws way too much juice for camp use so I had SMB pre wire power and speaker wires (one speaker in the 60 barn door and another under the couch). I bought a simple 1 din head unit and mounted it in the kitchen shelf. Now we can listen to back ground music while camping or plug my laptop into it when we watch movies and it draws a way smaller amount of juice from our house batteries than the car setup.

[BroncoHauler]

Some resources for 12V gear. That said, for many appliances, you'll want to have either the engine running or a generator running to minimize big drains to your batteries.

http://www.my12voltstore.com/12_volt_Ap ... s_s/81.htm

http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-appl ... iances.htm


Herb

[daveb]

Originally Posted by Spoolin

I was thinking about all the things (or few things really) that I need to run and the list is as follows:

-Fridge (looking at the Engel website as we speak)
-Microwave (a few DC options I take it?)
-Water pump
-Space heater (I'm guessing propane would be the best option)
-Plugs for Laptops, camera's and phone chargers (USB seems like a must)
-LED lighting
-Fans

So really, the only thing I would need A/C for would be for the laptops/phones/camera's and sounds like a properly sized inverter would more or less do the trick.

If you plan to install a microwave you'll have to size the inverter to it. A 650w microwave would need a slightly larger watt inverter like 1000-1200w. They do make 12vDC microwaves but are expensive. They probably have those in the links Herb showed.
http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/portabl ... QgodXS8AEg
But they are expensive and like the inverter, it will require a heavy gauge wire coming off the house battery system.
I thought you wanted an Air Conditioner? If you plan on that and a generator to run it, you can add a single AC run to the microwave/coffee pot or other heavy load items. You can get a cheap MW for 70 bucks. Smaller inverters could be used for the little things if you want. Just remember once the walls are up it is more expensive to add anything.
So how do you plan to keep the house battery system charged?

[Spoolin]

Originally Posted by 4MacFam

The USB plugins should work great for charging phones, ipods, ipads. Just make sure they are powerful enough for the device. Not all of those USB plugins are the same.

I bought a cig lighter plugin charger for my MacBook Pro. It was hard to find, but works great. The cameras will be a little trickery, as most of their chargers are AC only. I wonder....just checked Amazon and they do have a DC charger for the Canon cameras. Crap, another thing to buy.

I thought that those particular appliances were A/C powered no? I mean I guess it makes sense since I do charge my phone and Ipad with my car chargers from time to time, guess I never really thought about it until now, hmm...

I guess I'm confused, now since our phones and Ipads charge in both our homes and our vehicles, so do they require AC or DC power to work? Apparently they can charge both ways. Then again, I'm not really running an electric motor am I? I'm just charging a battery which itself is a DC appliance. Hmmm....


Sorry but electrical issues is not a subject I'm affluent in.

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

Some resources for 12V gear. That said, for many appliances, you'll want to have either the engine running or a generator running to minimize big drains to your batteries.

http://www.my12voltstore.com/12_volt_Ap ... s_s/81.htm

http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-appl ... iances.htm


Herb

Great!! Thanks for those links! I'm gonna start checking those out!! And yeah, I'm fine with running the rig here and there especially when running those bigger appliances.

Originally Posted by daveb

I thought you wanted an Air Conditioner? If you plan on that and a generator to run it, you can add a single AC run to the microwave/coffee pot or other heavy load items. You can get a cheap MW for 70 bucks. Smaller inverters could be used for the little things if you want. Just remember once the walls are up it is more expensive to add anything.
So how do you plan to keep the house battery system charged?

Nope, no air-conditioner for the Van. I do have one in my trailer though, maybe that's where the confusion came from? My Van's A/C works well enough even when parked and not much air-flow over the condensor. I'd rather just have a couple fans for airflow than a roof mounted A/C for the Van.
And I don't drink Coffee in the morning, I'm one of those weird people who just wakes up when he's done sleeping, no morning grogginess for me.

I guess the charging of the house batteries is a great question, I kinda just figured on running the engine. I don't really ever camp anywhere for too long, I like driving!
The biggest trip I have planned for this SMB is to drive from Cali to Prudoe Bay Alaska, east across Canada, and then once I reach the East coast, drive south to Tierra Del Fuego in Argentina, and then turn around and come back up the Western Coast of the America's. Probably +/- 20,000 miles. So I don't plan on camping anywhere for more than 2-3 nights, and the time on the road should recharge my batteries between camp sites.

And I do plan on getting a portable genny, which means I would have to figure out a charging system for that but that should keep me out of trouble should my batteries die.

[daveb]

My bad...thought you were specing the trailer and why I suggested the trailer mfg will know how to build an electrical system to your specs.
Yes I can see where you really wouldn't need AC in the van unless you're planning a microwave. Do you really need one? To me it's a luxury item that requires a substantial cost to set up. Even if you want a MW in the van, a single inverter to power it will require you to match it to the MW hence more money. Charging your vans house battery system might be an issue though. While the van sits you will need some source of charging to maintain the system if you don't have solar. The vans house battery system should have a tie to the vehicles 12vDC system to charge while you're on the road and it's best to have some kind of chassis/house battery separator. While not on the road you can always purchase a marine maintenance charger wired to the battery system that you can power from an extension cord at home. My inverter actually sees very little use producing AC power and is mainly used to charge the house system and run the MW when I need it. Many low tech smaller inverters have AC outlets on them and if one is mounted in a spot that is accessible you can plug in there if needed. I also use mini 12vDC socket plug-in inverters that I can use for small AC devices. If you don't use USB ports that much you can use 12vDC socket plug in USB ports. But the 12v socket+USB junctions are cheap and worth looking at. My Go-Pro cameras require a more heavy duty USB 12v socket plug which couldn't be used with some of the similar light-amp plug in types I have.

The types shown above don't pull anything unless powering a device.
The problem with inverter types shown below is they pull power to operate even if you're not using 110AC

But they work fine for smaller devices. You might want to take a look at electrical section in my SMB article shown below. There are several links worth looking at.

Dave

[rob_gendreau]

I'm probably going out on a limb here generalizing, but most stuff without big power needs is usually running off DC, even if you plug it in the wall at home.

Huh, you say? Take a look at the wall warts and the output voltage they list; you'll often see relatively small amounts of DC power (I was just looking at the one for my Baofeng radio, 10v at 1 amp, DC of course). So in theory you could take all those wall warts and chop the DC plugs off and fasten them to a device in your van that provides 12v or less. That's what I've done; it's a DC/DC converter from Powerstream and it comes with lots of DC plugs to fit most stuff, or I use the plug off the wall wart with a powerpole connector. There were just getting to be too many of them, and I hate lugging around all those power bricks when their whole purpose is to change AC to DC. Why add another conversion, i.e. DC to AC to DC?

Now, having said that, there are exceptions. Some laptops, eg, are receiving up to say 18v or more from those wall warts. That's above your 12v system in your van, so you'd need a different type of DC/DC converter (boost vs buck), but they're rarer, more expensive, and so often just as easy to use an inverter.

But the important point is to look at the power needs of all the stuff; you don't need a 2000 watt inverter if your power needs top out at 10 watts. And small electronics are getting better and better at using less power.

Rob

[86Scotty]

Originally Posted by Spoolin

And I don't drink Coffee in the morning, I'm one of those weird people who just wakes up when he's done sleeping, no morning grogginess for me.

I hate you people

I think all of your questions have pretty well been addressed except furnace. Yes, propane is easiest. Electric heaters draw a LOT of power, just like microwaves. I could live without a microwave if she didn't insist on it, but I couldn't live without a stove. Just about anything (except frozen dinner type things) can be heated on a stove, plus there's no power needed for one at all. I would urge you to go with a simple propane system for a furnace and single or 2 burner stove before a microwave and electric heater. A small RV furnace will cost a few hundred, but they work well and are safe. The electric fan in them is DC and uses relatively little power.

[E350]

Came across this while looking at Ample Power alternators suggested by Chance:

http://www.amplepower.com/products/living/index.html



Might be of interest to you in your AC vs DC quest.

Also:



http://www.amplepower.com/products/wiring/index.html