Inverter Drains Van Battery - Page 3

Dbark · 04-05-2019, 09:30 PM

Actually, mine is doing something different. My house battery is removed because it is a 2008 4D (or was a 2008 4D) and believed to be dead. When I drive around and stop all lights, systems, etc, that should be running off the house battery (which is no longer there) actually work - water pump, electric top, etc. When I flip inverter on, just to see what it does, it kills all power. However, my starter battery can still start the van. So maybe the isolator on mine is working from the standpoint that it kills the system because it doesn't want it to invert off the starter battery and the house battery was just dead, dead.

86Scotty · 04-06-2019, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dbark

Actually, mine is doing something different. My house battery is removed because it is a 2008 4D (or was a 2008 4D) and believed to be dead. When I drive around and stop all lights, systems, etc, that should be running off the house battery (which is no longer there) actually work - water pump, electric top, etc. When I flip inverter on, just to see what it does, it kills all power. However, my starter battery can still start the van. So maybe the isolator on mine is working from the standpoint that it kills the system because it doesn't want it to invert off the starter battery and the house battery was just dead, dead.

I think your problem is pretty easily solved. Replace the missing house battery. You will not be able to use much of your camper van without it.

Scalf77 · 04-06-2019, 10:34 AM

I do agree with Eric, the first part sounds simple you need a new house battery.
After that you need to be a little more clear, I believe I saw that your rig was a 2004, that was a transition year. SMB went from the Surepower isolator

to the SurePower Separator 1315

The terms isolator & separator are pretty much interchangeable, but the two devices work in different manors to perform the same task. It is also possible that your rig was upgraded or modified over the years, so there are also some other possibilities out there.

Judging from your input I would be more inclined to think it was the isolator, as the Separator usually needs to have a minimal voltage on the house battery to work. You are going to have to verify which one you have, the isolator is usually mounted in the engine compartment, while the separator is inside the vehicle, usually under back seat of side mounted gaucho.

Now when you say that you flip the inverter on that all power dies, is this being done while it is running? I assume so because there should not be any power to the back when it is not running correct? Is it just the inverter that shuts down. Is there anything plugged into your AC outlets? In general most inverters that SMB uses have a load sense capability, this will monitor to see if there and any loads present to make the inverter go into full invert mode or standby mode, this will of course use some current, but not as much if just on. It is also possible that the load sense is configured to just come on.

How do you reset this no power condition? What kind of inverter do you have? Do you have Solar , or any other charging devices? All these details are needed to get a better understanding of your issue.

Your new house battery will probably make this go all away. But you should still check on the isolator - separator question. Either one has been in service for awhile, and I wouldn't expect the separator to last that long.

-greg

Dbark · 04-06-2019, 01:03 PM

Thanks Greg.

I have a separator in the goucho. See pic below. I removed the house battery because it was dead (2008 4D battery and owner didn't keep it charged for last 3 years). What is weird is that when I drive the van a lot, all of the rear lights, water pump, refrigerator, etc, will work even without a house battery. In other words it is pulling power from the starter battery, I guess. After awhile, however, everything will shut down as if the battery is drained, but the starter battery is not drained, it starts the van up right away. If I flip the inverter on to "invert" it kills all power to the lights, refrigerator, furnace, water pump, and the inverter display. Everything goes blank. I'm wondering if the separator has an override that if it pulls to much power from the starter battery and there isn't a house battery it just zaps it. I have not looked under the hood today to look for the isolator but the wiring diagram that came with the van suggests I have both.

This is done when the van is OFF i.e. flip the inverter with van off. Power to everything with van off. Nothing plugged into my AC outlets.

How do you reset this no power condition?

I have to drive the van to reset it for awhile. Eventually something charges. I do not have solar...installing today.

Scalf77 · 04-06-2019, 01:55 PM

I would say that is working pretty much as normal then. The separator is voltage level driven. This means that when the van is running the alternator is providing voltage above 13.2 volts at the separator. This allows the separator to connect and provide voltage to your house side. As you shut the van down, the starter will remain above 12.8 volts for a while, this will depend mostly on what loads it currently has, the more loads the shorter the time.

As I said the inverter will have a minimum draw also once the starter goes below 12.8 volts it will disconnect and you will have no power from the starter. Turning the van on and driving will again pull the starter van voltage above 13.2 and you will have voltage to the house circuits. Probably with starter connected the inverter would turn on.

Now, since you have a Surepower 1315-200 you may put on your list a new ACR from Blue Sea. The Surepower units has about 50% of the rated relay cycles that the Blue Sea unit does, it is a continuous duty solenoid and generate heat when connected. If needed I can send some information on making the change over, unfortunately it usually involves changing ends of the cable as the surepower units is 5/16 and the BS-ACR is 3/8. Feel free to PM me if needed.

-greg

dave0718 · 04-07-2019, 10:16 AM

FYI, my Prosine 2.0 in my 2005 SMB stopped working last month and found out that model has been discontinued and no spare/replacement parts available. But when working I had a splitter at the temperature sensing circuit and a switch run from that line to a convenient location so that I could turn off the inverter/charger by tricking the device into thinking it had over heated and shut down. Stopped the miscellaneous discharge if not actively needing it. Also my seperater did make sure no discharge from van battery but only house batteries. Thought that wiring was straight forward but maybe i'm wrong.

tomw · 04-07-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

...Apple doesn't make one that I know of and this is a mystery to me. Perhaps they don't realize that most of their clientele are highly mobile types who would benefit much more from a off grid charger than a home type and it would probably be cheaper for them to produce.

Off topic, but after my first few iPhones were pretty awful in anything less than a strong signal environment I became convinced that Apple designed the things for the largest segment of their customer base -- city and Interstate highway dwellers. I suspect that their computer design folks follow the same strategy. Very few of these urbanites need 12V DC power supplies; thus, their absence from the Apple-branded accessory lineup. Fortunately, there's a robust aftermarket.

BTW, the iPhoneXR is an exception -- it works reasonably well on the fringes.

Dbark · 04-07-2019, 08:43 PM

Update: Installed the new batteries. I went with 2 deep cycle 6 volt with 245 AH. Once installed inverter worked and everything has been working all day. That confirms that the prior battery was just completely dead and wouldn't charge.

vlamgat · 04-08-2019, 09:56 AM

Where are your new house batteries installed? Frame rail, passenger side, center or forward?

tnmarm · 04-09-2019, 06:33 PM

Alright so I put a meter with the inverter on and engine off on the starter battery and didn't see any change as I flipped the inverter on and off.

I did see a change on the house battery doing the same test.

I also ordered a battery tray for the frame rail to get the second starter battery setup.

I left the inverter on to see what it does over the next few days to either battery.

I'm now leaning that the inverter and the starter battery being dead was coincidence. But will see over the next few days.

Even if it turns out everything has been working as expected I have learned a ton about my van.