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Old 01-25-2017, 08:52 PM   #1
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Lithium for replacement house? Easy?

I am at the point I think we need new house batteries for Sporty...I have abused them..mainly through ignorance of how to use/what to expect/do's n don'ts etc...fortunately running into a thread a year or so ago to help get what I could out of or 1st set (original from SMB North 2-small)...reading other posts from users going with lithium systems from the start and others retrofitting current rigs...and being on the "other side" of the bell curve on here (a lot of you members are so smart and knowing about all operating systems etc...it makes me feel lucky I can log in lol)is it possible to just 'simply' install new lithium batteries/battery to replace the old lead-acid batteries? My house batteries are in a box behind drivers seat/under Goucho...thanks in advance for the thoughts/education...
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Old 01-25-2017, 09:27 PM   #2
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Most require a special charger for them. Unless I'm mistaken, they do make a lithium battery that accepts a standard 12 volt charge but I don't know how well they've held up.
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Old 01-26-2017, 01:57 AM   #3
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The short answer is no....not a drop-in replacement....they require a battery management system for charging and discharging .......more sophisticated then a typical lead acid battery.

Most incidents of lithium batteries bursting into flames (laptops, cell phones, etc) are due to improper design of the BMS for the battery.

Have you priced out a Lithium house battery?
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:36 AM   #4
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I am at the point I think we need new house batteries for Sporty...I have abused them..mainly through ignorance of how to use/what to expect/do's n don'ts etc..
I'm not sure the above statement, and a MAJOR investment in Lithium batteries, are necessarily compatible. Lithium batteries are wonderful, but personally I think there's some extra diligence that needs to go along with them, and they are very expensive.


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Old 01-26-2017, 10:34 AM   #5
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If you have the $$ and you want to give it a go, I would suggest this:

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/441554...=1485439637107

If their specifications are true, then this would be equivalent to a 200Ah AGM for the most part. What is surprising here is the temperature performance and the charging. They claim 90% at 0C/32F which is pretty darn good really. They only say you need a 14.8V Bulk and 13.8 Float. Now that is pretty close to most AGM's and there are a bunch of charge controllers that would come within 0.2 Volts of those numbers. If you abused your AGM's, then the question is how did you abuse them?? Did you just charge them with the alternator only?? Let them go dead when in storage?? How about a solar and shore power charging system to keep them fresh??

Before i bought one I would for sure speak to their tech support and make sure that a 2 stage charger with the right settings would be OK. Trashing AGM's or Flooded batteries is one thing, these cost 3x that.

I just built up my system and came to the realization that everything I put around the battery cost as much if not more than the battery itself, but again, all this is for reliability and redundancy and most importantly safety.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:36 PM   #6
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having recently replaced my 3 year old kinetik khc2000 102 ah agm with a 94 ah lithium battery I have some insights on charging them.

I hand built my lithium battery with 168 18650 laptop batteries, which cost me about 250 dollars. When put together I have what is called a 11.1 volt 3S battery pack (fully charge it reads 12.6 volts). This battery does have a BMS controller that will stop the battery from overcharging and also over draining). The battery is made up of two 84 cell packs connected together, one is 50 amp hour, the other is 44 amp hour, once connected together they remain in perfect balance. You can buy a true 12 volt 100ah lithium battery but those are easily in the 600 dollar range and above, those are plug in replacements for lead acid and will work with any solar controller.

I have a 240 watt panel and decided to buy a cheap 12 dollar pwm solar charger to charge the battery, this charger will stop charging when the battery reaches a max of 12.6 volts. With pwm I get a max of 6 amps of power to charge the battery. I still had my ecoworthy 20 amp mppt (cost 102 dollars) which I was using for my agm. I went ahead and lower the adsorb voltage to 13 volts (the lowest it will go) and decided to see if mppt would work.

After 4 months of use, the ecoworthy has been working great, it gives me about 11 amps of charge power. It has never overcharge the battery or even trip the lithium BMS to stop the charging. The battery never reaches a full charge, there is not enough sunlight in a day to reach a full charge. It might charge quickly to 80 or 90 percent, but the remainder 10 percent you will run out of sunlight. Even if you have 10 amps available, the battery will only be charging at 4 or 5 amps that last 10 percent. Even with generator or house current it will require overnight charging. Unlike agm's if the lithium only read 12.1 volts, its very usable and not getting a full charge wont harm the battery, it will actually extend its life.

Actual use of the lithium is definitely an improvement over agm, I have no problem using my 11 amp roadpro cooker at the lower voltage. I havent had any problems with my inverters shutting off from the lower voltage. With lithium you get to use all the available amp hours. I haven't had to make any changes to accommodate the lithium battery, it was mostly plug and play since I was using the same xt60 connectors for everything. One thing I notice is if you drain your battery all the way down, with solar it will take several days to get it back to 90 percent. My 240 solar panel barely keeps up with it.

Laptop batteries are dangerous if abused, the main cause of them overheating is by draining above there rating. All can handle a 1 amp charge/discharge. Connecting 168 batteries together, the charge/discharge is spread out over 168 batteries. The BMS I use is rated at 15 amp charge/discharge which is a very gentle rate for all the batteries. They do make higher current BMS, in 100 amp range if needed. Taking many laptop batteries apart I never saw any venting or heat damage batteries, but I did take some power tool lithium batteries apart and saw many heat damage, venting and even cracked batteries, those I would avoid.

Once you go lithium you wont go back to lead acid, I can easily carry my 94 ah lithium in one hand, I havent weighed it but it is about a 3rd the weight of the kinetik. The costs are still high even if you build your own.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:45 PM   #7
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Very cool Jony101.

Question:

Can you charge this with your alternator?? Or is this strictly from a controlled voltage source like the solar charger where you can adjust your voltage accordingly??

Do you think a float mode would get you that last 10%??

Again, very cool.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:45 AM   #8
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Excellent write-up Jony....thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:34 AM   #9
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Found this guy looking up those batteries

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cycle-battery/
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:05 AM   #10
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You can buy a true 12 volt 100ah lithium battery but those are easily in the 600 dollar range and above, those are plug in replacements for lead acid and will work with any solar controller.

So the automotive group size/form factor batteries all have built in BMS??
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