New (to me) rig with potential electrical "issues"

[mikracer]

Originally Posted by dhally

Just a thought - why not replace the batteries with 6 volt ones? That way the same wiring could be used (exept the #10). A good 6 volt battery will give equal service to the 12 volt ones.

The comment about the wires needing to be the same size and length only applies to parallel batteries, not series.

I guess I was under the assumption that two 12 volt batteries will yield me more amp hours than running two 6 volt batteries in series. I should probably look into that. I need to replace at a minimum a few wires on the current setup. For example, the "charge" wire from the converter goes to a distribution block. The wire to the battery from the distribution block looks like a 10ga wire connected to a 4ga wire with a bunch of electrical tape at the connection. That wire definitely needs to go. I have to track down the wire from the house battery to the isolator because I'm pretty sure that wire is a pretty thin wire as well. I think that wire should be a heavy duty 4ga wire.

[mikracer]

A quick google search showed me that a good 6volt battery has 220aH and wired in series will give me 12volts with the same amp hours. A group 27 battery (all AGM) yields around 100aH, so perhaps running either setup will net me about the same amp hours. I guess at this point, it would be a pricing game.

[xcnick]

Originally Posted by mikracer

I guess I was under the assumption that two 12 volt batteries will yield me more amp hours than running two 6 volt batteries in series. I should probably look into that.

I have to track down the wire from the house battery to the isolator because I'm pretty sure that wire is a pretty thin wire as well. I think that wire should be a heavy duty 4ga wire.

Two 6 volts are better. The amp hours are essentially the same but they last longer. They only reason to do the 27's is price and availability.

When I checked my '96s wiring, the isolator to battery wire is the one I was most suspicious of.

If you glass the inside of the box, look into if epoxy or polyester resin is better, I have no idea.

Here is a way to minimize battery overflow.
http://www.flowsystemsusa.com/water-miser-vent-cap.html

[mikracer]

Originally Posted by xcnick

Two 6 volts are better. The amp hours are essentially the same but they last longer. They only reason to do the 27's is price and availability.

When I checked my '96s wiring, the isolator to battery wire is the one I was most suspicious of.

If you glass the inside of the box, look into if epoxy or polyester resin is better, I have no idea.

Here is a way to minimize battery overflow.
http://www.flowsystemsusa.com/water-miser-vent-cap.html

My plan is to go with AGM batteries either way. I've read that AGM's have little to no off gassing if charged properly so I wasn't going to put them in a sealed box. The batteries go under the gaucho and there are vents that exit out the side of the van.

[Ford_6L_E350]

Originally Posted by dhally

Just a thought - why not replace the batteries with 6 volt ones? That way the same wiring could be used (exept the #10). A good 6 volt battery will give equal service to the 12 volt ones.
.

Actually, the 6v batteries are usually tougher. The lead plates and spacers are thinner because they only need half as many plates to make 6v as to make 12v. Two 6v batteries is a good solution in most cases.

Mike

[daveb]

Originally Posted by Ford_6L_E350

Actually, the 6v batteries are usually tougher. The lead plates and spacers are thinner because they only need half as many plates to make 6v as to make 12v. Two 6v batteries is a good solution in most cases.

Mike

That might be true in some cases but you also have to take into account on the battery make, model and design. There are cheap worthless 6 volt batteries out there just like good and bad AGM types. IMO there is no way I would ever go back to typical wet cell deep cycle batteries today but that's just me. YMMV

There are several things that each person has to deal with. For instance when I was using wet cell batteries on a weekly basis on my Bass boat, I had issues dealing with keeping water levels true. I found it much easier to deal with AGM's. I didn't have to worry about water levels. The boat sat in a hot garage and wet cell batteries made for more maintenance than just dealing with the water during charging. Sulfidation was definately more of an issue and with multiple batteries if one went down chances were damage was done to the other. I also had to deal with acid spewing all over the place. Another big plus was I found AGM's charge up faster and once fully charged wouldn't self discharge as quickly as wet cell types.

They are now making AGM golf cart batteries but you're probably still going to pay a premium rate for the better made battery. Wet cell golf cart batteries have been time tested and the better brands are well known for their quality. Not too sure on the AGM 6v golf cart batteries and I already know who makes the better 12v types. I would think that companies like Trojan have kept up with high quality but I've never seen much data on the 6v .

For some people, spending the money for a high price battery might not be worth it though. If the vehicle sits for long periods of time and you have to replace the batteries every few years, why spend the big bucks if you never can exploit the capability of the better made battery?

I'm going out on a limb stating I feel a high end deep cycle AGM is a highend deep cycle AGM whether 6v or 12 volt and what you pay for is the quality of the lead each manufacture happens to use. Batteries such as those made by Concorde have the ability to accept high amp inflow charge currents which says something about their quality. But if you can get more AH per dollar using a cheaper 6 volt AGM it would be worth looking into.
When using AGM batteries I'd rather keep it as simple as possible which would be the less connections the better.
You also would want to read this:
http://www.4x4extremesports.com/index.p ... num_p2.php

[mikracer]

Thanks for the link daveb.

I read the article and looked up my local sears to see if they had AGM batteries in stock. Sure enough, they do. I've noticed that most people on this forum run a group 27 battery for the house system. Any particular reason for that specific size? As stated before, my batteries are under my gaucho and theres plenty of room for other sized batteries. Should I get a larger group size? The Diehard Platinum AGM batteries seem to be the same price regardless of size and they're about $100+ less than a life line battery. They also come with a 4 year free replacement warranty. Seems pretty good to me.

[Ford_6L_E350]

I have 2 Goup 27 batteries because that is the largest size that will fit in the battery boxes that SMB used on my van.

And for us, we have never needed more battery. New we got about 3 days of refrig before needing a charge. The solar panel took care of that restriction.

Mike

[daveb]

Originally Posted by mikracer

Thanks for the link daveb.

I read the article and looked up my local sears to see if they had AGM batteries in stock. Sure enough, they do. I've noticed that most people on this forum run a group 27 battery for the house system. Any particular reason for that specific size? As stated before, my batteries are under my gaucho and theres plenty of room for other sized batteries. Should I get a larger group size? The Diehard Platinum AGM batteries seem to be the same price regardless of size and they're about $100+ less than a life line battery. They also come with a 4 year free replacement warranty. Seems pretty good to me.

I don't know if Odyssey makes other batteries for Sears. It also should be noted that the particular Diehard mentioned is not a full deep cycle battery but price is a huge consideration. As a starting battery that is banked with other AGM's, those would work well or those could be a good choice as a house battery as well. If you have AGM house batteries it doesn't hurt to have AGM starting batteries. Mike and I had an off line discussion and he is correct to mention that golf cart batteries are true deep cycle batteries. Many so called deep cycle fishing batteries are not even true deep cycle batteries and may not last as long as some of the fork lift and golf cart type batteries. But most are true wet cell batteries and must be maintained as such. Universal makes an AGM 6 volt battery but I just don't have any info if it's any better than their 12v counterparts. There is some data about using twin 6 volt cart batteries compared to two 12 v batteries where connectivity is more efficient with the 6 volt setup over two 12v batteries but it sounds like you'll have open access to them and can make sure the connections are sound at all times. I will say this is that there are some 6v cart batteries out there that will pack a bit more of a punch as far as amp hours but they are expensive. Rolls Surrette sells a 250AH 6v battery for about $370 but you'll need two so 250 Ah @ 12v will cost a whopping $740. But you can get a Lifeline 8D 12v 255AH for about $650. Size might be an issue though. Now that's high end batteries. I had a buddy grab some 6v AGM's at Costco for dirt cheap. We'll see how long they last Also watch out for how batteries are rated. AH varies depending on it. Most use a 24 hr rate but some use 20hr or even 100.

[mikracer]

Originally Posted by daveb

I don't know if Odyssey makes other batteries for Sears. It also should be noted that the particular Diehard mentioned is not a full deep cycle battery but price is a huge consideration. As a starting battery that is banked with other AGM's, those would work well or those could be a good choice as a house battery as well. If you have AGM house batteries it doesn't hurt to have AGM starting batteries. Mike and I had an off line discussion and he is correct to mention that golf cart batteries are true deep cycle batteries. Many so called deep cycle fishing batteries are not true deep cycle batteries and may not last as long as some of the fork lift and golf cart type batteries. But most are true wet cell batteries and must be maintained as such. Universal makes an AGM 6 volt battery but I just don't have any info if it's any better than their 12v counterparts. There is some data about using twin 6 volt cart batteries compared to two 12 v batteries where connectivity is more efficient with the 6 volt setup over two 12v batteries but it sounds like you'll have open access to them and can make sure the connections are sound at all times. I will say this is that there are some 6v cart batteries out there that will pack a bit more of a punch as far as amp hours but they are expensive. Rolls Surrette sells a 250AH 6v battery for about $370 but you'll need two so 250 Ah @ 12v will cost a whopping $740. But you can get a Lifeline 8D 12v 255AH for about $650. Size might be an issue though. Now that's high end batteries. I had a buddy grab some 6v AGM's at Costco for dirt cheap. We'll see how long they last Also watch out for how batteries are rated. AH varies depending on it. Most use a 24 hr rate but some use 20hr or even 10.

So in addition to AGM, I should look to see that the battery is a deep cycle? Costco has batteries that are 6 volt labeled as golf cart batteries. I called my local Costco this morning and the guy who "helped" me didn't know if they were AGM. They are pretty cheap at $88 each so I doubt they are. I'm going to stop by there tomorrow and investigate further.

Thanks again everyone for your help on this subject I'm a firm believer of but once, cry once. Better to get it right the first time!