DeLorme InReach

[BroncoHauler]

I think the biggest advantage of having tracking is in case you get into an accident 'off the grid' and at least they'll know where to begin their search efforts. If you've been travelling for days without people having an accurate location for you, and if you can't use your sat phone, others knowing your last location could be invaluable.


Herb

[Viejo]

We've been very happy with our Spot, but it would be nice to be able to exchange text on such a device. We use the Spot to check in with family each nite and it has the 911 button for life/death situations, but the middle option - tell family, not 911 - that you need help, is about worthless. You're 300 miles away and they don't know if you need a tow truck or doctor or fuel or what. We have the sat phone for that situation, but it would be cheaper and probably more reliable to just be able to text on a sat phone beacon.

[rob_gendreau]

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

I think the biggest advantage of having tracking is in case you get into an accident 'off the grid' and at least they'll know where to begin their search efforts. If you've been travelling for days without people having an accurate location for you, and if you can't use your sat phone, others knowing your last location could be invaluable.

I would have thought so, but not so sure. A PLB instantly sends your GPS data. Of course, that's only as good as your GPS fix. If you're breadcrumbing with a SPOT you're also using up the battery, and it's unclear if when you do hit the 911 that you'll transmit a good GPS point. If you're interested, check the USCG report and stories about the Aegean incident. IIRC the SPOT failed to send a GPS coordinate contemporaneous with the SOS. Not to mention being a fail at GEO Alliance. But I hope it prompted them to fix the problem.

And you can locate on the 406 itself, although not as accurate as GPS. And at least in some environments the location beacon as well, although I doubt many SAR organizations on land use it. But it is used in aviation.

And having a flight plan is a good idea; some land managers expect it (although I don't think it's too common if you're just fourwheeling around). I once pitched an idea (preSPOT) for a hiking/climbing website where you could register such plans. No techno gizmos, just a place accessible to land managers and friends and family where you could say list the dates and times you were going to Saline Valley and contact info. Wasn't sexy enough; never got anywhere (and you couldn't sell products for it). An advantage of the sat phone is you could do this, however, without any other communication being available (although for us hams that isn't as often a problem).

[rob_gendreau]

Originally Posted by Viejo

We've been very happy with our Spot, but it would be nice to be able to exchange text on such a device. We use the Spot to check in with family each nite and it has the 911 button for life/death situations, but the middle option - tell family, not 911 - that you need help, is about worthless. You're 300 miles away and they don't know if you need a tow truck or doctor or fuel or what. We have the sat phone for that situation, but it would be cheaper and probably more reliable to just be able to text on a sat phone beacon.

Your sat phone doesn't do text? I though like cells they all did. Better check that out if we rent one.

And I'd think voice might still be necessary...as when you negotiate the price for that tow!

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by rob_gendreau

I would have thought so, but not so sure. A PLB instantly sends your GPS data. Of course, that's only as good as your GPS fix. If you're breadcrumbing with a SPOT you're also using up the battery, and it's unclear if when you do hit the 911 that you'll transmit a good GPS point. If you're interested, check the USCG report and stories about the Aegean incident. IIRC the SPOT failed to send a GPS coordinate contemporaneous with the SOS. Not to mention being a fail at GEO Alliance. But I hope it prompted them to fix the problem.

And you can locate on the 406 itself, although not as accurate as GPS. And at least in some environments the location beacon as well, although I doubt many SAR organizations on land use it. But it is used in aviation.

And having a flight plan is a good idea; some land managers expect it (although I don't think it's too common if you're just fourwheeling around). I once pitched an idea (preSPOT) for a hiking/climbing website where you could register such plans. No techno gizmos, just a place accessible to land managers and friends and family where you could say list the dates and times you were going to Saline Valley and contact info. Wasn't sexy enough; never got anywhere (and you couldn't sell products for it). An advantage of the sat phone is you could do this, however, without any other communication being available (although for us hams that isn't as often a problem).

So, 406 PLB's will transmit GPS if they have it (and as they have it) but the satellites can also give us a location from each pass (triangulated ish). As the GPS warms up, it will get added to the next transmission once it has a good signal.

PLB's typically don't require a subscription (so you only pay once), give you SOS only, and give rescuers little context about your emergency (broken down with no water? broken femur? fell down a trail?)

PLBs contain a 121.5 beacon which can help get us "the last mile" to your location.

Also, SPOT and other SEND devices use a private satellite network and rescue coordination center. PLBs use the COSPAS/SARSAT satellite network and on US land rescues, the Air Force Rescue Coordination Center (coast guard for sea)

Here is an article I wrote on PLBs and SENDs:
http://seattlebackpackersmagazine.com/r ... thout-one/

re: float/flight/driving plan, there are now a couple of sites that do that, and basically they alert family members to tell SAR where the people were planning on going. We typically rely on evidence we have directly and what family tells us. There's no standard site for us to look at.

[rob_gendreau]

Liked the article.

A couple of things that I learned as a result of the studies after that Aegean incident I mentioned. First, the SPOT breadcrumbs weren't always sent at the designated time interval, or perhaps received. A Globalsat bird needs to see the SPOT AND the receiver. 406 is all digital, and goes to both high and low orbit satellites, and only needs to hit one. In short, the transmission is quicker. 406 is a much better frequency to transmit on than what the commercial sats use.

And the protocols of COSPAS/SARSAT vs GEOS Alliance aren't quite the same. The USCG, for example, presumes the validity of an activation of a registered unit (which has your emergency contact info indexed to that device, BTW) and has resources out as they try to track down people, etc. Those poor guys on the Aegean were probably in deep distress before GEOS Alliance left a voice mail for the skipper's relative. I hate to say it, but I think that there probably are gonna be more false alarms with SPOTs and Delormes than with 406 PLBs, and so while I understand the delay in that case, it's also unexcusable. Crikey, the Coasties recently went all out over what probably was a fraudulent call off the San Mateo coast. I dunno about land SAR, but the presumption is that it's definitely an emergency.

But let's face it, the sea and the air are much more dangerous locations than the land, and so the rescue infrastructure around those locations is just so much more sophisticated. And more immediate, by necessity. Maybe a sat phone is all you need. After all 911 is kinda the emergency frequency for land.

Again, thanks for the article.

[daveb]

I'd also add that it doesn't hurt to have a backup. Looks like my sat phone's battery is on it's way out and I didn't find out until I used it a couple weeks back. It worked ok off the 12v source but still things can fail. One other thing about my sat phone is I have used it to have those more expertise in giving me info on how to repair or where to go about getting parts. It was invaluable in DV when my trailer broke a spring. I was able to track down a spring pack in Pahrump and get back in time to make the repair before the storm of a decade hit.

[ANZAC]

Originally Posted by rob_gendreau

And the protocols of COSPAS/SARSAT vs GEOS Alliance aren't quite the same. The USCG, for example, presumes the validity of an activation of a registered unit (which has your emergency contact info indexed to that device, BTW) and has resources out as they try to track down people, etc. Those poor guys on the Aegean were probably in deep distress before GEOS Alliance left a voice mail for the skipper's relative. I hate to say it, but I think that there probably are gonna be more false alarms with SPOTs and Delormes than with 406 PLBs, and so while I understand the delay in that case, it's also unexcusable. Crikey, the Coasties recently went all out over what probably was a fraudulent call off the San Mateo coast. I dunno about land SAR, but the presumption is that it's definitely an emergency.

We treat both with equal priority for land searches. We have had a few falses with SPOTs, but they were the v1 before the newer SEND standard around activation buttons.

BUT the GEOS RCC has to call our comm center. If they call, we treat as top priority. If they don't call, nothing we can do about that.

The process for an ELT (plane down) vs PLB is pretty much the same, they're the same device these days. There are some jurisdiction differences, but it all goes through the AFRCC, who by the way are good folks, we work with them very closely.

Here is the tough question. Some of the PLBs do support breadcrumbs and messages, but a certain number per year (battery life) - see 406link.com. I think PLBs are much better for a life threatening emergency.

But let's say you blow an axle out in the middle of nowhere. You have plenty of water. Maybe you won't see a car for 2 days, but you'll be ok. When do you press the button? On a PLB, you can't tell them your situation. We treat all of them as life threatening calls. We don't charge for rescue in Washington. Other states may....

So for breakdowns, I would go with a sat phone as you say, maybe a SPOT as well or instead. Because you can tell family "hey I blew an axle"

Maybe a sat phone is all you need. After all 911 is kinda the emergency frequency for land.

Not sure there is a 911 for sat phones?

[rob_gendreau]

I started a new topic on this since I didn't want it to deviate more from the original post. But I thought it would be good to have a general topic on all PLB, sat phone, SPOT/InReach type devices.