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Old 03-17-2010, 01:47 AM   #11
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

This is also common with Dodge front ends. I am going through it now. IMO, it is usually a combination of things that, together cause the problem. Part of the problem is that usually, no one part is worn so bad that they can say "there's your problem right there". I believe one of the major causes is the rubber bushings in the control arms, track bar ect, then combine that with a bad steering stabilizer, bad ball joints, bad u-joints & you have the death wobble. Sometimes bad shocks can add to it. My truck has 18,100 miles on it & the u-joints are going out, ball joints are going out, control arm bushings are wearing out, track bar & sway bar bushings are wearing out. Dealer swears "everything is within specs" & will not replace anything. They blamed it all on my stock size Cooper STT's, which is BS. My last Dodge 2500 had the ball joints go out at 22,000 miles.

So I just ordered some real high end parts to fix it. Carli HD upper/lower ball joints, adj track bar, CroMo control arms--all with HD greasable, rebuildable heim joints, PSC HD steering box brace, Borgeson HD steering shaft, Quad 4x4 ball joint press & 2 triple sealed spicer u-joints.

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Old 03-17-2010, 11:42 AM   #12
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

I agree with you. In my case my research shows that Ford has taken no responsibility for the problem. They have done significant research and testing and conclude it's all about wear, tire size, alignment, lift height, tire pressure, tire condition and Solar Flares!!!
So...I will monitor the problem closely and in the case of Quadvans, John is actively testing a couple of aftermarket mods that may help. I've only driven a few miles after the adjustments so as yet I can't say absolutely my problems are over.
Just kidding about the Solar Flares but hey...if Toyota can go there???
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:31 PM   #13
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

I had this problem and spent many hours researching the problem. It is basically a text-book spring-mass-damper problem. I have 06 F350 axles in my E350 and could not get the death-wobble to go away. My best bud is a Ford Master Mechanic and all too familiar with the problem. Even with 1.8 degrees caster it would rear its head on nasty railroad tracks and similar bumps at the 40-50 mph. I played with air pressure 5 psi at a time and could make it go away at about 35 psi, but this is too low for safety and wear. I tried the new Ford damper with no avail. I then built my own 2 shock damper by using the 5400 series Bilstein and problem has never come back. the problem with single dampers is they are not pressurized (can't be or it will make you turn). The lack of pressurization means that there is a dead-spot (for rod volume) before the shock dampens. This dead spot means no dampening in some distance. By using 2 pressurized suspension shocks the push-out effect is balanced and no dead spot. Make sure you use the mono-tube design like the 5400s or they might not work properly on their side. I like it so well I am going to try 4 degrees of caster to get the better tracking quality back. I will try to post pics if anyone is interested.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:14 PM   #14
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

please do post photos. I am interested.

thanks.

paul
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:51 PM   #15
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

Chris
Care to share your opinions on the alignment shops? I did have very good results at McLea's.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:14 AM   #16
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

Charlie 56,
When I went to Mclea's, I spent a good deal of time explaining my problem. The service guy was very good and seemed to understand. He also said their alignment mechanic had a lot of experience with 4wd. At this point I didn't realize this process could either be done on a laser machine or manually. When I picked up the van I was told everything had been adjusted to specs and there was no abnormal wear in the ball joints. I was given a print out that showed the before and after settings. I didn't notice until later that the spec sheet was headed "E250-350 2wd"
Anyway...the van seemed to handle better and the wobble did not reappear until I was about 400 miles into my trip. I can't tell you what precipitated the recurrence but it was severe...more severe than it had ever been.
Upon our return I took the van to Chuck's Brake and Wheel. They have the best rep of any shop in town and their alignment specialist is said to be the best for doing it the old fashion way??? He called me back down to the shop after inspecting the van and advised the ball joints were worn out and the track bar joint was also worn out. He said the axels were Ford's worst design and the Quadvan conversion was poorly designed. He said he couldn't remove the track bar joint because part of the Quadvan conversion was in the way.
I picked up the van and called around. I ended up at Benjamin Tire & Brake with the Ford TSB in hand and the spec sheet from McLea's. They set the everything according to those specs which John at Quadvan confirmed should solve the problem. The ball joints were NOT worn out nor was the track ball joint.
I haven't been on any rough surfaces yet but hard braking between 40 and 50 does not set up the wobble as before.

I'm interested to see the double steering damper built by TurboStew. I'll go there next if I still have a problem. I presently have a single Bilstein damper.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:44 PM   #17
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

Yea I know guys, gotta bunch of snow here in Ft Collins. I hope to get pics in then next day or two.

I don't believe you will ever get rid of the DW without changing some mass some where or dampener some where on the 05-0? Superduty setups. Lowering caster to 0 will do it but it will drive like $#&@. Sometimes changing backspacing on the wheels will change the "mass" adding more rational inertia about the kinkpin axis. Tires might do it. Vehicles with more angle from horizontal on the track bar or more bump steer (like the 05+ Fords) seem to be more prone to it. Just add more dampening and be done with it. Thats the way it works, you think you got it fixed, then at 2:00 AM on some road in BFE while you half asleep and there is a 500 ft drop-off the DW will hit you, screw that, if I learned anything in 15 years of engineering, it is dampening in mechanical systems is good thing!
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:22 PM   #18
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

I know when I was chasing the evil poltergeist, I found a set of nasty RR tracks that I could make it do it every time. Hit'r about 40 with a slight left turn (wheel at 10:30 position) as I hit the tracks and whamo, sustained DW until I slowed down. I would go make an adjustment and try it again, Had my master Ford mech buddy change alignment, whamo, wobble again, change air pressure, whamo again. new dampener, whamo again. Like I said earlier 35 PSI and she went away. It usually takes a nasty bump that is perpendicular to the road and upsets both tires at the same time or maybe slightly diagonal so you get a one-two punch. BTW, Ball-joints and Trackbar were always nice n tight. I got obsessed with understanding the theories on DW for about a month, I would crack-out on the web digging up every SAE and whatever paper I could find. Even the OEMs are stumped on this one or we wouldn't have new trucks with DW. According to some old papers it is a phenomenon known as "wheel jounce" and is always a potential evil lurking in solid front axle setups.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:54 PM   #19
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

Turbo....may I call you Turbo...you describe my dynamics almost exactly. But you say the dampers did not work? Or did your recent retrofit custom damper(s) do the trick?

New name..."Death Jounce"
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:38 PM   #20
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble

Sure Turbo works, call me any thing except "late for dinner".

No, I was referring to the factory Ford damper. Duals did the trick. I think the singles are a joke because of the dead spot. By no means am I saying that a dual setup is a cure for worn out ball-joints and track bar bushings, or bad alignment, it just buys you more "margin" as things wear. I can live with DW when my ball joints have a 1/4" of slop, but not when they get their first .010 of slop. I like margin! Who wants to be on the "ragged edge" of stability on the family trip? Sure ain't me! Again.... lots of margin. For you Geekaneer types.... No right half plane poles!
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