Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2018, 11:09 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
Window Plate Adhesive Questions

Looking for some advice on which adhesive to use in this situation.

I have an aluminum plate that I want to use to replace the rear drivers side window on my passenger RB Ford. I like the look of it and will have cabinets behind this window anyway. See 1st and 2nd attached photo. Would like to mount some l track on the plate and possibly use it as a storage option. I’m taking inspiration from this product from Vanoganlife:

Vanagon Overland Window - V.O.W ‚€” VANAGONLIFE

If I use the included gasket the plate sits in further than the other windows. I don’t like the way this looks. The glass window and aluminum plate are the same thickness. The original glass window has a larger gasket made of a hard rubber. That gasket is permenantly attached to the glass. The gasket has bolts embedded inside that attach the window to the van. Ford uses butyl tape to seal the inside of that gasket to the van body. I thought it would be better to use one of the original gaskets. I went to the junk yard and cut one off an older window. I pulled the bolts out. I now need to attach the whole assembly to the van. The aluminum plate has exterior holes. I will bolt through the plate, gasket, and van body. I have butyl tape to go between the gasket and the van just like Ford uses.

The question I need help with is what to use between the gasket and the aluminum plate. The van side of the gasket has a channel in which the butyl tape can sit. The plate side is a little rough from the cutting process. See photos 3 and 4. I thought of making a small channel in that side like the van side and using butyl to seal it. I question wether that is a good idea. Thought I should check with you all and see what you think. Is there a better way to seal the gasket to the aluminum plate?

Thank you all for your help. Very much appreciate all the great advice I’ve gathered from this forum.
Attached Thumbnails
40275D5E-2874-4717-94A6-0C0D79D0DF0D.jpg   51D5E6AD-55DB-433D-B6E2-D3DC2569A0A9.jpg   9AF7542F-2D00-493C-96A8-F6D5F205164E.jpg   F9C21B1C-B404-4693-A47F-687A060053F2.jpg  
__________________

JVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:30 PM   #2
GAR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 256
JVan,

Have you already considered having the entire window area covered with sheet metal and welded to the van itself? Might be a more secure way to seal off that area and could provide more support for what you’re planning to do on the inside.

Gar
__________________

GAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 03:48 AM   #3
JWA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Posts: 2,161
Send a message via Yahoo to JWA
I'm actually in the auto/truck glass biz but am a bit confused on what parts you have and what you're trying to accomplish with those parts.

From what I read it seems you have separated the actual glass from the spacer ring which should have been permanently attached to the glass in turn bolted to the body from inside and sealed with butyl tape. Am I on track so far?

Similar applications of this type have used aluminum plate about 1/4" thick as that allows mounting of attachments to support various bits of off-road gear. The typical tempered factory glass is just over 1/8" thick so if your aluminum plate is that thin its probably not thick enough to support attaching anything to it without deflection or potential tearing away of anything bolted to it.

Mechanically fixing the plate to the body in a fashion similar to Ford's scheme where the spacer and plate are thru-bolted would be best. Any type of sealant would be sufficient between the plate and the spacer, silicone adhesive/sealant in a caulking tube probably best as it is easy to apply and does a great job.

That way adhesive strength isn't an issue---the bolts would be more than sufficient to hold a lot of weight.

Sorry to go so in depth with this---hope I'm helping.
JWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 06:19 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 50
GAR - Haven’t thought of this. It’s a good idea. Has anyone here done that?

JWA - You haven’t confused me. I was hoping you would chime in. Wanted to PM you so I was going through your posts last night to verify you were in the glass biz. Couldn’t remember for sure. You’re on track with what I’ve done. Through bolting like you’ve mentioned is the plan. Silicone is probably the best and easiest answer.

Rallypanam did this on his rear door window. His pictures probably clear up the mounting idea.

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/for...ack-21146.html

I’m still not sure I’d end up mounting anything there. Even bolting through the end bolts like Rallypanam has done wouldn’t hold much weight in this location. I also don’t want to create drag or increase side width. At most I’d maybe mount some recovery boards here.
JVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 11:09 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
arctictraveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,787
Welding in a solid plate would be a labor intensive, expensive method. Likely, there would be some warpage of the sheet metal requiring a lot of body work and paint afterwords. Since your bolting in the new plate, it should be plenty strong and with a little sealant it should be leak free. I removed my drivers side rear window and replaced it with a piece of plywood that had relief slots cut most of the way through to allow it to bend, so at it's thinnest it may have been only 1/8 in thick. I cut a large hole in it to install an A/C unit, and it was plenty strong, but probably far less than if I had made it of Aluminum or steel. It was in place for thousands of miles of off road use and held up just fine until the A/C unit failed. I removed the unit and installed another that required an even bigger hole, and again, the wood held up fine until the second unit failed (due no doubt to all the off road pounding over the summer). So, I'd say your metal plate will be plenty strong enough.
__________________
Arctic Traveller
KC6TNI
2001 GTRV
Advanced 4wd
Agile Ride improvement package
www.arctictraveller.com
arctictraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 01:09 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVan View Post
Looking for some advice on which adhesive to use in this situation.

I have an aluminum plate that I want to use to replace the rear drivers side window on my passenger RB Ford. I like the look of it and will have cabinets behind this window anyway. See 1st and 2nd attached photo. Would like to mount some l track on the plate and possibly use it as a storage option. Iím taking inspiration from this product from Vanoganlife:

Vanagon Overland Window - V.O.W ‚ÄĒ VANAGONLIFE

If I use the included gasket the plate sits in further than the other windows. I donít like the way this looks. The glass window and aluminum plate are the same thickness. The original glass window has a larger gasket made of a hard rubber. That gasket is permenantly attached to the glass. The gasket has bolts embedded inside that attach the window to the van. Ford uses butyl tape to seal the inside of that gasket to the van body. I thought it would be better to use one of the original gaskets. I went to the junk yard and cut one off an older window. I pulled the bolts out. I now need to attach the whole assembly to the van. The aluminum plate has exterior holes. I will bolt through the plate, gasket, and van body. I have butyl tape to go between the gasket and the van just like Ford uses.

The question I need help with is what to use between the gasket and the aluminum plate. The van side of the gasket has a channel in which the butyl tape can sit. The plate side is a little rough from the cutting process. See photos 3 and 4. I thought of making a small channel in that side like the van side and using butyl to seal it. I question wether that is a good idea. Thought I should check with you all and see what you think. Is there a better way to seal the gasket to the aluminum plate?

Thank you all for your help. Very much appreciate all the great advice Iíve gathered from this forum.

I think this is what you need :
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is butyl adhesive, used extensively in the auto industry.


BTW how did you manage to get the Al plate? DIY? I've been trying to get something alike with no luck
lashidalgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 01:50 PM   #7
JWA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Posts: 2,161
Send a message via Yahoo to JWA
Quote:
Originally Posted by lashidalgo View Post

Is butyl adhesive, used extensively in the auto industry.
Once upon a time that was true----from the middle '50's up thru 1978 so many windshields and back glasses were set in car bodies using various sizes of butyl "rope". Beginning model year 1979 nearly every passenger-type vehicle switched to urethane adhesives and we've not looked back since.

Butyl only works when the glass or other panel is NOT vertically standing as would a side glass. Because its exceptionally plastic the least little bit of heat and it slides whichever way gravity pulls whatever it was trying to secure in place. This was true when it was in common use ages ago but the auto industry had stops in place between the bottom edge of the glass and body so when the glass moved it would eventually come to rest on those stops.

JVan's best bet is mechanically attaching the panel to the body via bolts, nuts etc and using the silicone adhesive to seal it all in the body.

I mean who'd wanna use butyl and one day the panel just fall out???
JWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 02:52 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWA View Post
Once upon a time that was true----from the middle '50's up thru 1978 so many windshields and back glasses were set in car bodies using various sizes of butyl "rope". Beginning model year 1979 nearly every passenger-type vehicle switched to urethane adhesives and we've not looked back since.

Butyl only works when the glass or other panel is NOT vertically standing as would a side glass. Because its exceptionally plastic the least little bit of heat and it slides whichever way gravity pulls whatever it was trying to secure in place. This was true when it was in common use ages ago but the auto industry had stops in place between the bottom edge of the glass and body so when the glass moved it would eventually come to rest on those stops.

JVan's best bet is mechanically attaching the panel to the body via bolts, nuts etc and using the silicone adhesive to seal it all in the body.

I mean who'd wanna use butyl and one day the panel just fall out???

That makes a lot of sense but what the hell is what comes there from the factory? I've pulled my windows out and it looks pretty much like this tape. Maybe the previous owner did the change. Unless this ribbon tape is not butyl ...
lashidalgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 03:08 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
arctictraveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,787
I had my rear door window in and out three times over the years, and always sealed it with Butyl. It's never leaked or moved, but it is bolted in. I can certainly see how it would move if it wasn't though.
__________________
Arctic Traveller
KC6TNI
2001 GTRV
Advanced 4wd
Agile Ride improvement package
www.arctictraveller.com
arctictraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 03:22 PM   #10
JWA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
Posts: 2,161
Send a message via Yahoo to JWA
Quote:
Originally Posted by lashidalgo View Post
That makes a lot of sense but what the hell is what comes there from the factory? I've pulled my windows out and it looks pretty much like this tape. Maybe the previous owner did the change. Unless this ribbon tape is not butyl ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctictraveller View Post
I had my rear door window in and out three times over the years, and always sealed it with Butyl. It's never leaked or moved, but it is bolted in. I can certainly see how it would move if it wasn't though.
Butyl is great WHEN used as we see on the side windows of our vans----it still found use on the E-Series while they were in production. AT has this right in that the bolts actually hold the glass in place, the butly nothing but a sealant. In the best case scenarios it remains somewhat soft and pliable over time making it desirable in that application.

I have resealed quite a few E-Series side windows where the butyl is mostly still in place but loose bolts allow the glass to pull away from the body ever so slightly allowing water to leak in. Of course those loose bolts always seem to be across the top.

My original point about installing a replacement panel was/is it must be done using some sort of mechanical fasteners, sealants used only as that and in no way as a sole means of holding the part to the van body. Hope I didn't drag this thread too far afield.
__________________

JWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adhesive, sealant, window installation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sportsmobile SIP or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.