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Old 03-15-2008, 05:59 PM   #11
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Truly environmentally better??

I have read with ethanol, that in the US it is not a net environmental plus because of the energy that has to be consumed to create the ethanol (this is not true, apparently, of ethanol made in Brazil because processing sugar cane is more efficient than processing corn, as we do in the US). I was wondering if the value of Biodiesel offsets the environmental costs of creating it.

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Old 03-15-2008, 09:51 PM   #12
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Depends on the source of the biodiesel. If it's a result of growing soy beans or some other organic oil source just for biodiesel, it's not an energy saver. It is however better for your diesel engine. If the source of the biodiesel is recycled organic oil (e.g. cooking oil), I think there is an energy savings.

The subsidies (spelling?) to make ethanol have driven up the price of corn and consequently pork. Hmmm, pork ... as in Congressional add-ins?


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Old 03-16-2008, 10:36 AM   #13
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biodiesel isn't ethanol!

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Depends on the source of the biodiesel. If it's a result of growing soy beans or some other organic oil source just for biodiesel, it's not an energy saver.
Not true (although there are other issues involved). While corn-based ethanol barely justifies the energy use (for every unit of energy used to produce it, 1.2-1.8 units are created), plant-based biodiesel is a lot more efficient with an energy return ratio of 3.2. Also, since growing the source crop captures CO2, biodiesel is almost carbon neutral (almost, because 10% of raw input is methanol).

The other issues include the very real problems of replacement of food crop acreage with fuel crop acreage, and energy used to work the fields. This varies with the type of crop.

Disclaimer: I'm an investor in and a staff member of San Juan BioEnergy which is a biodiesel startup in Dove Creek, Colorado. We have just begun building our plant, which will crush locally grown sunflower seeds into oil; the majority of this will be sold as food oil, but some of it, along with recaptured cooking oil, will be made into biodiesel. Sunflowers grow well in this high desert without irrigation or other intensive farming practices, and are a good rotation crop for wheat and beans, which are the traditional crops grown here in SW Colorado.

I would be happy to answer questions or discuss biodiesel! In fact, we bought a diesel-engine Sportsmobile (last week :-) with an eye to running off biodiesel - figure we'll put our money where our mouth is, so to speak.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:53 AM   #14
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Re: biodiesel isn't ethanol!

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Originally Posted by windom
Quote:
Depends on the source of the biodiesel. If it's a result of growing soy beans or some other organic oil source just for biodiesel, it's not an energy saver.
Not true (although there are other issues involved). While corn-based ethanol barely justifies the energy use (for every unit of energy used to produce it, 1.2-1.8 units are created), plant-based biodiesel is a lot more efficient with an energy return ratio of 3.2. Also, since growing the source crop captures CO2, biodiesel is almost carbon neutral (almost, because 10% of raw input is methanol).

The other issues include the very real problems of replacement of food crop acreage with fuel crop acreage, and energy used to work the fields. This varies with the type of crop.

Disclaimer: I'm an investor in and a staff member of San Juan BioEnergy which is a biodiesel startup in Dove Creek, Colorado. We have just begun building our plant, which will crush locally grown sunflower seeds into oil; the majority of this will be sold as food oil, but some of it, along with recaptured cooking oil, will be made into biodiesel. Sunflowers grow well in this high desert without irrigation or other intensive farming practices, and are a good rotation crop for wheat and beans, which are the traditional crops grown here in SW Colorado.

I would be happy to answer questions or discuss biodiesel! In fact, we bought a diesel-engine Sportsmobile (last week :-) with an eye to running off biodiesel - figure we'll put our money where our mouth is, so to speak.
Yep, blew that one. Guess I was talking out of my ass. Methane injection for diesels? Sorry, that's a whole other topic.


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Old 03-16-2008, 12:29 PM   #15
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Hee, well, we are looking at using methane digesters to create fairly carbon-neutral methanol for biodiesel production. So perhaps one day talking out your ass will power your Sportsmobile!
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