Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-03-2019, 08:47 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
keytothestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Rincon,PR./Dgo,Co.
Posts: 121
curse of the van

Another week another problem. So while my van has been at the shop my mechanic and I noticed another problem. Drivers side lower ball joint looked weird. The BJ was stripped couldn't get it tightened properly. Was just going to put a new one in. But the new one didn't fix it. The inner C also known I guess as the axle housing. The hole where the BJ goes in has been hogged out wallowed out or whatever and won't properly or safely seat a BJ. They are telling me I need a whole new axle. Mine has 25k and less than 2yrs old since UJ installed it (UJ stage 2 axle). Durango mechanics claim that's the only way to fix it is a new one. Where it took me about an hour to find on the net about 4 other possible options. Has anyone heard of this happening? Or experienced this. Seems like to me the axle might of had a fault in the 1st place? Solutions I found.
1 Use different brand or size BJ
2. Thread insert
3 weld and cone out the hole
4 Cut the inner C and and replace weld with a new Reid inner C which sounds like a total PIA
__________________

keytothestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 10:48 AM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19
If it were me I would replace the axle housing, but I would probably do that myself so the whole equation could be different for you. I do not know what the ujoint does to the newer axles to make them a stage 2 axle... and if that is different than what they do the older leaf sprung axles. I'm guessing you could swap everything of value to a new axle housing, then sell off the extra knuckles and axle shafts to recuperate some of the cost. I would expect that removing and welding in a new inner c would be more labor than swapping parts from one axle to the other, but I dont know for sure.


As for what caused the problem in the first place I can only speculate. If there was any piece of debris in the tapered hole on the inner c that might allow for someone to be able to torque it to spec, then allow the joint to loosen up and wallow out over time. If the balljoint had slightly damaged threads to begin with, that could also someone to torque it to spec without getting the proper preload on the joint. That or it was never torqued down properly to begin with... we're all human, and bound to make a mistake eventually. the thread damage could possibly have happened afterward as well... a result of the loose joint rather than the cause of it.

Was your axle housing modified at all? I thought the ujoint radius arm kits were getting the lower track bar pivot moved up towards the end there.


Dynatrac sells a rebuildable heavy duty balljoint for the superduty axles. They are expensive.
__________________

Trevor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 10:52 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
mikracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 2,177
Have you tried contacting UJ? Chris seems like a pretty reasonable guy and I would imagine he would try to help.
__________________
2005 E350 Chateau - V10 - Agile Offroad 4x4
2012 CTS-V Wagon - For the baby...
mikracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 12:59 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
carringb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 4,269
I'd give good old J-B Weld a chance to fix it before ditching it.

I agree Trevor on the cause.... It wasn't tight for some reason, moved a bunch and wallowed out he hole.

Welding and reaming the hole would work too, but that probably enough labor time that another used axle would probably be cheaper.
__________________
2000 E350 extended wagon dually
V10 w/ Banks Powerpack, Diablo Predator
Buckstop Outback bumper/grill guard
Reunel rear bumper
carringb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 01:51 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
keytothestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Rincon,PR./Dgo,Co.
Posts: 121
Thanks guys! I'll be back in Dgo wed. Gonna talk it over and go through some other solutions with the mechanics. They actually let Chris know and I followed up with an email but haven't heard back from him. He's been great and very helpful with other issues and the other recent one with the x-member and tail house. After all the previous problems and now this I'm just getting exhausted dumping $ in this van. Having to replace or redo the work that was orgianally done less than 2yrs ago. I only have used the van maybe 10 months. The rest of time in the shop or in storage. And another 2-5k for another axle kinda freaked me out initially. Since i already paid over 5k for an axle orginally during the conversion.The mechanics said it looked like the BJ was installed improperly and was banged out to get to fit??? Speculation obviously. How hard would it be to find a axle housing and cost? Any ideas? But the weld fix seems doable to me and has been recommended by a friend in Durango who has owned 20 plus vans. Also I believe the only difference in the leaf and coil axles is the coil axle has to be 05 and newer. My friend in Durango has two older ones that won't work.
keytothestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 03:13 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
TomsBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brentwood, CA
Posts: 858
I can't remember what the machined mating surfaces at the inner C looks like on a ball joint Dana 60, it's been a while. If you could post up pics of the bad surfaces/holes, I can better help.



I'm pretty sure the upper uses a bushing with tapered ID (that the Ball Joint locks into) and the OD sides into a cylindrical bore in the inner C. The lower has a tapered hole, that locks in the tapered ball joint. If I remember right.


If one of the inner C's machined holes, the part that's factory welded to the axle housing tube, is buggered up, JB Weld epoxy isn't going to work... there's a LOT of load on those machined holes, you can't allow them to rattle loose and remain safe. These are precision fits with exacting tolerances. If this was a trail buggy and trailside repair, heck yeah, but a rig that does highway miles, I'd want no part in that.



Depending on how modified your current housing is, how much welding has been done compared to a factory Ford truck housing (Chris should be able to tell you that) if the housing is essentially 'stock Ford truck', you might locate a $400 craigslist, LKQ, or salvage yard housing and have your mechanic swap it out. In my area, those things are sought after, the rock crawler crowd upgrade to these, so they are in demand. Yours is likely 'year and barnd specific' meanning ny old Dana 60 ball joint housing isn't going to work. If the upfitter used a 1999-2004 Ford SD, you'll need to locate one of those.



Another alternative, is to pull the housing and have a machine shop weld up the buggered hole, re-machine it in a mill. I don't think 99.9% of the mechanics out there could pull off a quality weld and remachine the hole, on the vehicle. Personally I'm at home behind the handles of a Bridgeport and with precision machining, so if it were me, I'd do this one either myself, or farm it out to someone with the right set of skills, after having an in-depth conversation.



A third is to carefully cut off the bad inner C, grind off the welds wo/hurting the axle tube, and weld on a good one, an aftermaket one (not sure they exist for ball joint, but I know Reid offers new king pin versions, not interchangeable with ball joint) , maybe a used one harvested from another housing.



Here's an ebay link, but these have been flame cut off, and require clean up by a machinist cutting out the stub, boring out the ID, then prepping your old housing to a moderately precision fit, indexing it so the caster ends up correct, then welding. There's a lot of build threads on Pirate 4x4, youtube vids, that show guys removing their inner C, and reindexing it to restore caster on a truck w/huge lift, the process is about the same.


https://www.ebay.com/i/133023177314?...CABEgKUy_D_BwE
__________________
1995 E350 7.3 Diesel, 4x4 high roof camper, UJOR 4" lift
TomsBeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2019, 05:40 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 19
I thought the main selling point of the Ujoint Stage2 axles was the use of F550 rotors, which are 14.5 inches in diameter I think. The leaf-sprung ford axles up to '04 had rotors in the 13" range somewhere, and Ujoint is using some combination of aftermarket and custom parts to make it all fit on that era of axle. I thought the rotor size and knuckles changed with the 2005+ axle and around 2013 the ford dana 60 started coming with even larger 14.3" rotors... almost the size of the F550 rotors. So I gotta wonder if Ujoint really needed to modify anything as substantially for a "Coil Spring Stage 2" axle (which I think you have, based on your previous posts). If not, hopefully that makes the chances better that you can swap fewer parts onto a new housing. If you find a new axle that has good ball joints and all of your brake parts just bolt up, that's less time you have to spend (or pay a mechanic) for the repair.

I bought a 2014 axle assembly with radius arms and 24k miles from an LKQ in Denver for around $1700. I've read some folks finding deals for around $1500. carpart.com or local junk yards are other places to look. You are also in the position of not needing the radius arms or all of the suspension bolts, so you do not have to be as discerning as someone searching for an axle for an MG kit. I don’t think it’s likely you'd be able to buy just the housing, but again I bet you could sell off a few parts to offset the costs a bit.

I'm pretty sure the F450/550 axle housings are different from the F250/350 housings. The short side tube might be a little longer, and the inner C's may be different to allow for the larger 1550 u-joints that they employ... so I believe you'll have to limit your search to F250/350 axles if you choose to go this route.

I’m only internet-smart on all of the specific sizes and years, so don’t trust all of my figures. I am sure of what I bought for my conversion though.

It sucks that you have had so much trouble so far with your van. Hopefully this is the last thing you'll have to iron out for awhile.
Trevor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 07:48 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
keytothestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Rincon,PR./Dgo,Co.
Posts: 121
Just got back in town and went to the shop to talk things over with them. The inner C is wallowed out pretty bad in a egg like shape. They tried finding some type of insert but with the the egg like shape everyone they talked too said it wouldn't work. They don't feel a weld will do it and are opposed to cutting the C and welding a new one on. So seems like the unfortunate solution and the safest is a new axle and swapping everything. Gonna email UJ tomorrow and see if he will help out. Last we spoke Chris was looking for a insert that could be welded in as well. He needs to talk to the shop anyways to help with the new x-member he sent out for installation.
keytothestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2019, 09:00 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
arctictraveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,906
Any competent machine shop can make an insert pretty quickly, it's basically just a bushing. Getting it aligned in the egg shaped hole might be a much tougher task though, but hopefully Chris will make this right and you won't have to deal with trying to repair the old one.
__________________
Arctic Traveller
KC6TNI
2001 GTRV
Advanced 4wd
Agile Ride improvement package
www.arctictraveller.com
arctictraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 10:24 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
keytothestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Rincon,PR./Dgo,Co.
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctictraveller View Post
Any competent machine shop can make an insert pretty quickly, it's basically just a bushing. Getting it aligned in the egg shaped hole might be a much tougher task though, but hopefully Chris will make this right and you won't have to deal with trying to repair the old one.
Yes that was Chris's thoughts this morning as well. He doesn't understand why a sleeve can't be welded in? Should be pretty straight forward? That the hole will have to be opened any ways, and be good as new? Getting a custom sleeve would be way easier than new a housing. He wants some pixs and hopefully between the shop and him they can figure it out!
__________________

keytothestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
axle

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sportsmobile SIP or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.