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Old 04-15-2015, 07:16 PM   #11
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Re: Need advise

Thank you all for your input, proved insightful.

When I saw Mike's reply about "consider a replacement engine from Ford. All the latest upgrades, new injectors, etc." It got me thinking, so I inquired with several Ford Dealerships. Turns out having the engine replaced at a dealership in California allows me to also utilize any Ford Dealership in the Country if issues arise. This I confirmed with a Local Dealership in Maryland. plus, this now saves me about $3,000 in transportation costs. Unfortunately that savings will have to be reinvested...

Have to say i'm a little disillusioned with FORD - while making inquiries with 6 Dealerships (4 in California, and 2 in Maryland), seems there is doubt as to whether or not the new replacement Engines actually have addressed the issues plaguing the 6.0 Powerstroke.
Some told me that all the parts affected have been upgraded, and i would not have any issues with the new Engine. But 2 told me that the replacement Engines are essentially the same as originals, all equipped with OEM parts that are comparable to what the initial engine was equipped with.

The latter was confirmed by Ford (had one of the service managers verify with Ford). So it looks like I still have to pay for installing the new Head Studs & Gaskets, along with several of the other components.

Thought I would pass that along.

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Old 04-15-2015, 07:48 PM   #12
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Re: Need advise

You need to figure out the build date on the engine. If it's a 2007 or 2008 it will have most if not all the upgraded parts. These are: the HPOP fitting, a better screen on the IPR, better fill and drain tubes on the turbo, and one extra row of cooling fins on the oil cooler.

The main thing that it does not have which is the Achilles heel on these motors is the 2003 EGR cooler. In 2004 they changed the EGR cooler to a square tube. The original round one does not have a record for failure and is basically the same one you can by from Bulletproofdiesel.

WRT the treatment from the Ford dealers it's not surprising. Also remember that Ford didn't even build this motor. It was built by International.

You don't really need the head studs but since you probably want to switch out the EGR cooler (or delete it) then you've already got the top part of the engine off. If you don't have a Ford dealer do the job then you might also consider using a ELC coolant rather than the Ford Gold.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:13 AM   #13
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Re: Need advise

Your engine is already out...do the head studs. Cheap insurance. Labor alone for me is $3500. You are only paying for parts. My 2010 did not have the updated hpop. I would advise against ford doing anything. Not all ford mechanics are diesel specialists.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:04 AM   #14
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Re: Need advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketcham
Your engine is already out...do the head studs. Cheap insurance. Labor alone for me is $3500. You are only paying for parts. My 2010 did not have the updated hpop. I would advise against ford doing anything. Not all ford mechanics are diesel specialists.
I agree if re-building the existing engine but do you pull apart a brand new replacement engine? I agree regarding the dealership. There's a good chance the mechanic is a kid fresh out of diesel school and the service writer doesn't know squat. That's been my experience.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:40 AM   #15
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Re: Need advise

You don't need studs on a 6.0 in a van unless you add a lot of horsepower. Stock pickups (325HP) are reliable without studs. Van engines have less horsepower (235HP) and even less need for studs. Even on the 6.0 forums I've never heard of a van blowing headgaskets.

My dealer told me there is only two different replacement 6.0 engines, early and late, and the all have the latest parts possible. One of the subtle changes is the latest injector that are not prone to sticking.

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Old 04-16-2015, 10:14 AM   #16
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Re: Need advise

Head Gasket failures I've seen were due to Hydrolocking. Putting in stronger head bolts sometimes just means you bust the bottom end instead if you are hydrolocked. This usually makes your block not usable as a core (except with Ford, who will take a damage block for a core i.e. it's built into the price).

If I were getting a reman engine far away from home, Ford probably would be my first pick, for warranty reasons. A lot of people knock the dealers for not knowing the 6.0, but I disagree with that assessment. Most have good diesel techs, and as a whole they have more experience with these motors than anybody else (granted, I know one Ford dealer I wouldn't let near a diesel.... or most cars for that matter)

But, if you are anti-dealer, at least choose an option with a real nationwide warranty. Not just a shop insurance policy, that may or may not reimburse you for future repairs. Somebody like NAPA who includes a nationwide parts and labor warranty which can be honored at any Napa shop (unless you break-down within 50 miles, then it has go back to the original shop).
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Old 04-16-2015, 10:18 AM   #17
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Re: Need advise

The later versions would also have the better PCM heat inductive strategy for cold startups.

The main reasons head gaskets go bad is because the oil cooler gets plugged. That starts the domino effect resulting in EGR cooler rupture and then HG failure. That can mostly be avoided by monitoring the clues (EOT/ECT temp spread) from the get go and making sure the coolant is maintained properly. The Ford Gold has silicates and other additives, that if not properly maintained, clog the oil cooler. That could be avoided by using an ELC right off the bat that is intended for diesel engines. International doesn't use Ford Gold in the 6.0 and they built the dang thing.

So, my 2 cents would be to stick in the new engine and use ELC coolant and install a coolant filter. Leave the engine stock and monitor the vitals. There might be casting sand in the block so the coolant filter will help with that as well. You might get 100,000 miles out of the motor before needing any of the upgrade parts. But, if you want more HP and performance upgrades that I would do as Ketchum said and do ARP headstuds. If money is no object then bulletproof the thing and never worry about it. That's going to be another $3k on top of the price of the new motor.
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:20 PM   #18
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Re: Need advise

I know this will create a hot debate. However, I have two PSD mechanics who believe the G05 issue is overstated. They have never seen direct damage by G05. A coolant filter is sufficient with proper coolant monitoring maintenance. I have had one personal experience on the 7.3 using a particular brand ELC coolant that eroded the seals and was a painful fix.
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Old 04-16-2015, 01:46 PM   #19
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Re: Need advise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketcham
I know this will create a hot debate. However, I have two PSD mechanics who believe the G05 issue is overstated. They have never seen direct damage by G05. A coolant filter is sufficient with proper coolant monitoring maintenance. I have had one personal experience on the 7.3 using a particular brand ELC coolant that eroded the seals and was a painful fix.
Not that hot, maybe lukewarm. But as you stated, "if properly maintained". Don't go 100,000 miles which was the original service interval. It's a known fact that the silicates in the Gold are at least part the problem with the oil coolers plugging on the 6.0. That, and leftover casting sand. When not properly maintained and tested for nitrite level, the silicates drop out and form a sludge in the cooling system. The silicates are not able to handle high EGT's generated by a long pull or relatively high boost when run through the EGR cooler.

International doesn't use G05, nor did they design the 6.0 to use it. It's more of a Ford, one size fits all, coolant. They use it in every truck that comes down the assembly line, diesel or not. But it does have some additives that are supposed to coat the inside of the engine to help with cavitation as well as reduce the corrosion of aluminum parts. I can't help but wonder if many mechanics (remember they are not working on their own vehicles) simply stick with it because it's a huge PIA to flush and switch to an ELC. To do it right you have to use chemicals like Restore and upwards of 50 gal. of distilled water.

My local diesel guy who I trust and who's family has made a nice living off repairing and keeping fleets with 6.0s alive and running also sticks with the Ford Gold. In my case, I looked into it further and decided to go with the CAT EC-1 specification. ELC is the coolant recommended and used by International. To each their own and this is why we have discussion forums. Helps us to form our own opinions instead of blindly trusting a mechanic who may or may not be lazy.
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Old 04-16-2015, 02:01 PM   #20
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Re: Need advise

What brand elc do you use and for how long, any issues? I wish to try one tried and true tested. I do not wish my previous experience on anyone.
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