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Old 01-16-2012, 09:56 PM   #1
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Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

After several inexplicable coolant releases to the driveway I found out that this can be an indication of EGR cooler and Oil cooler interaction as the oil cooler starts to plug up. I now have 56K miles and it seems that is also about the time problems might start to appear. I thought it wise to get a Scan Gauge II and start monitoring EOT & WT. I'm hoping that those of you have been monitoring for awhile can give me an idea of normal behavior. On my short commute I barely warm up and they are within a few degrees of each other around 190. On my one long trip I went on a desert camping trip (Anza Borrego DSP) and the New Years weekend was over 85 degrees there and the deltas were all over the place but generally between 5 and 10 degrees. Going up the Montezuma grade coolant got to 224 and oil 231 but then coolant would drop much faster than the oil leading to deltas greater than 18 degrees. Is the cool back down delta a concern? I don't have any data on a long steady drive yet. Any opinions & observation are appreciated. I'm am going to go with the BulletProof diesel EGR cooler soon but not really convinced on the necessity of their air cooled oil cooler. Plus I already have the Amsoil bypass filtration and an integral component of their kit is their own bypass system. So if anyone has comments on that it would be great. I'll be looking for installers soon and have noticed a few mentioned here on the site and have a few San Diego leads. I'm out of warranty now so I can finally make it reliable and maybe with a bit more oomph without that concern. Right now every place I go my first thought is how will I get the van out of here if it craps out? And that tends to limit the fun.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:31 PM   #2
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Those deltas seem fine.
Most healthy 6.0's (from my research) run deltas between 5-10 degrees ECT/EOT. A sustained difference of over 15 degrees is an indicator of an oil cooler constriction in the coolant side (this is what most often leads to EGR cooler failure). In addition, the 18 degree spread you noticed after climbing the pass can also be considered within normal limits since the coolant temp will drop much faster than the oil temp once you let off of the throttle. They should recover and be back within the 5-10 degree zone after a few minutes though.

My 6.0L deltas run about the same as yours. The temps are usually about 8 degrees apart with the exception of cresting a long climb. Once and a while I will see a 10 degree spread on flat ground at 70 mph.

Can you describe your coolant loss in the driveway? Does your EGR cooler have the newer coolant connection hose on it? The original orange ones were prone to leaking and mine was no exception. Check out the top left photo on this link: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/photographs/index5.php
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #3
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

IMO the important thing is to determine the delta after the motor is up to full operational temperature, which I think can take up to 45 minutes of driving. Short commutes won't tell the story. It's also important to get the delta after you've driven on a level road for at least 10 minutes after achieving the full operational temperature.

Yes, the oil temp lags the coolant temp in coming up to speed, and correspondingly the oil temp takes longer to come back down. Oil has a much lower rate of change than coolant.

Last year, monitoring the ScanGauge's Engine Coolant Temp (ECT) and Engine Oil Temp (EOT) led me to have the oil cooler replaced (with what I think I read was an improved Ford oil cooler), and the EGR replaced with a BulletProof Diesel EGR. Luckily I didn't have a failure because I monitored the EOT and ECTs. Replacing the cooler and the EGR wasn't too lucky on my wallet, but I didn't have a breakdown because I kept tabs with my ScanGauge.


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Old 01-16-2012, 10:49 PM   #4
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

^ Agreed, short drives will not give an accurate representation of what is going on.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:31 PM   #5
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Quote:
Originally Posted by saline

Can you describe your coolant loss in the driveway? Does your EGR cooler have the newer coolant connection hose on it? The original orange ones were prone to leaking and mine was no exception. Check out the top left photo on this link: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/photographs/index5.php
I would bet it's the orange as it should be the original 2004 hose unless it would have been something replaced during the many turbo warranty R&R and cleanings. I'm not sure what all has to come apart to do that. Those pictures are scary! Only twice on the coolant puddle, a cup or two. I didn't notice it when it happened (the van can sit for days) and I don't have the pattern if there is one. I'm waiting for the next time to really trace it and have it looked over by a mechanic. Thanks for your comments. I need to do a steady state trip soon but fuel is back up $4.20/ gal ($4.35 worst one) now so that kind of puts a damper of carefree driving @ 12 MPG or less. And that Scan Gauge feature of dollars per trip is a real downer too!
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:33 PM   #6
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatO
...not really convinced on the necessity of their air cooled oil cooler.
Picked up a scanguage II today at Bulletproof HQ in Mesa, AZ and they indicated to me that their E-series oil cooler won't fit on Ford vans with the SMB 4x4 drivetrain conversion. They're interested in engineering one but gauging (pun intended) the interest.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:22 AM   #7
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Since your deltas appear normal, have considered the coolant cap as a possible cause for coolant loss?

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=8584

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Old 02-21-2012, 07:15 PM   #8
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Got me a slightly used ScanGauge on the way for $115 shipped, to replace the one that went with the SMB I sold. I don't even have the "replacement" vehicle yet, but I know I want a ScanGauge for it.


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Old 03-27-2012, 10:45 PM   #9
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

Last weekend had my 3rd discharge, as before was after a less than 1 mile trip to fuel up and back. I think probably EGR hose and will be addressing this soon. I'm not sure why the pressure cap would be involved in this cold situation but I read up on it too. Scan Gauge remains the same 5-10 degree delta once warmed up. I should add that it takes over a day to leak this much and once it stops its done. Here's a leakage pic:

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Old 04-08-2012, 09:45 AM   #10
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Re: Scan Gauge II; Engine Oil and Coolant Delta T

After a one mile trip, your engine is not fully warmed up. Still, a couple of possibilities:

- Coolant cap. As the coolant warms up it expands (creating pressure), if the cap can't hold the pressure, it will vent. Since this is a known problem and a cheap and easy fix, I would just change the cap.

- Thermostat. It is possible for the thermostat to stick closed, then operate normally once it does open. Again, a fairly easy and inexpensive fix.

I have no other good ideas from this distance.

Mike
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