This is getting ugly, The FINISH!

[BIGVANS]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Bigvans, I would never do that. Very unfriendly, illegal in all 50 states, and no desired advantage.

Pat, the turbo will be re-installed along with all the other stuff. No problems with it, working fine.....

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend, because it would stop virtually all the problems with the turbo your model engine has, I thought you may want to discuss it with your mechanic.

[daveb]

Originally Posted by Zeta

Ha! Might as well make it "unsinkable" while you're at it.

Z

OK, so I forgot to type "as much as possible" in my post!

[Fulthrotl]

Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile

I'm going to get this done on my '05 F250 when I have to replace the turbo for the third time.

Unfriendly? Look at what we are driving and what this forum is devoted to.

bigvans knows whereof he speaks. in a previous life, he is one of the best mechanics i've
ever met.

my name's randy, i have a 2006 6.0L E-350 with 95k on the clock, and 10,500# rolling weight.
it was wonderful till it hit 91k.

it's wonderful now.

in between was over $11,000 of sub wonderful. that is the reason for this post. when i was blowing
white steam, and throwing codes left and right, i had a number of pretty unseflish people help me.
i'm passing what i learned onward, here, now.

all you 6.0 guys are in vans. the good part is, the FICM will probably last damn near forever.
the bad part is, the rest of the engine won't, and it's $4k to pull the puppy out to burp it.

i'm going to describe the problem as i see it, and best practices to get this thing to spin 500k
miles. my E-350 is an electrician's service vehicle. if it goes poop, i call AAA and i have 200 miles
of free towing on a flatbed. if you guys offroad like i used to, if it goes poopie, you need a
chinook helicopter and a sling, or homestead papers. i liked going places that were only
accessible by 4WD low, with lockers, or a rental car. either one.

this isn't gonna be a cheap post. neither is getting your happy camper back from a spot
best described by GPS coordinates. take a deep breath, suck it up, here is what it takes.
you can do pieces and parts of this, and a lot of people will tell you it will be good enough.

they don't have to push or pull when you get stuck.

=============
first problem is the oil cooler. it is the crux for everything that follows.
second problem is the EGR cooler. the oil cooler failure kills it.
third problem is motorcraft gold coolant.
fourth problem is the head gaskets. the EGR failure takes them out.
fifth problem is the heads.
sixth problem, is the FICM, for various reasons.
seventh problem is the injectors, for stiction.
eighth is batteries.
=============

those are most of what will leave you high and dry.
here are the best practices for repair. bear in mind, the primary
goal is to come home under your own steam, and the
secondary goal is to never have to do this again.... ever.

oil cooler plugs up with sand and precipitates from ford gold coolant.
replace with bulletproof diesel external oil cooler. takes oil cooler out
of coolant stream. can't plug up.

EGR cooler is second. oil cooler gets blocked, and cuts off flow to
egr cooler. egr cooler fails, mixes oil and water. sets stage for grand
finale. replace with bulletproof diesel egr cooler, not egr delete.
you can't smog the egr delete.

you CAN turn off the egr valve with software, if you are so inclined.
*i didn't say that out loud, did i?*
they are the same price BPD makes both, and BPD suggests you not
run the delete. it also sets a check engine light, that you need a tuner
to turn off. run the cooler, and let your conscience be your guide with
software.

coolant. ford gold throws precipitate down under some circumstances
that can occur in the 6.0. it helps with the casting sand to plug the OEM
oil cooler. my best practice would be evans waterless coolant. lasts
the life of the engine. cannot boil over. can be run with no pressure
system. water pump and hoses last foralmostever. boiling point 375
degrees.

can't overheat and boil over.

head gaskets. problem is head bolts which are made of velveeta,
and stretch. solution is to use OEM head gaskets, NOT BLACK ONYX,
and ARP head studs. you have to use ARP head studs.

the heads crack in a number of places. have them magnafluxed.
i had stellite valve seats put in, 'cause the heads are induction
hardened valve seats, and they crack. have heads surfaced,
and inspected for casting porosity in injector cups.

FICMs need watching.
fuel injection control module is under the puke container, not mouted
on the engine. that saves it from some of the heat and vibration, and
helps it to survive. it's over $1k to replace, and the OEM programming
sucks hugely, and is why the ficm dies a lot.

call ed at http://www.ficmrepair.com and get one of his spiffed ficms that
he builds for people. i'd suggest the 2 year warranty premium rebuild,
with the atlas 40 tune..... and if your original ficm is working ok, or seems
to, i'd put it in the vehicle somewhere, so you have a spare.

i'm serious. that's what i'm doing. you can change it in 15 minutes if
something goes wrong with it, but not if you don't have one.

the injectors. stiction. use rotella T6 synthetic oil, changing it every
5,000 miles. this engine SHEARS oil, and breaks it down without
killing the additive package first. DRAIN INTERVALS OVER 7,500
MILES ARE BEGGING FOR INJECTOR FAILURE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

eighth is batteries. if they are weak, they kill the ficm. see above.
make sure your charging system works... well.
i use a batteryminder 12248 to desulphate the batteries every so often.

USE ONLY OEM fuel filters. clean the HFCM regularly.

buy a scanner. you need one. i use AE with the ford enhanced
bundle, but there are other less expensive solutions that work excellently.

go here, and read the information on this engine series.
it is second to NONE on the net.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/

good luck, and enjoy the ride... remember, round parts down, rocks
outside, non inside the vehicle.

[jage]

Originally Posted by BIGVANS

One of my good friends just spent around $10K on all the fixes and upgrades, for the same reason, the engine was out of the van, so better do it now.

Yes, when I had mine in for the "bed plate oil leak" and the engine was supposed to be out I called and said "Let's do talk about some of these upgrades while it's out" and ... it turned out the engine wasn't really out. At the last minute, being two days after claiming the engine was supposed to be on stands outside the van, they decided it wasn't a bed plate oil leak after all.

That was on top of trying to charge me $400 out of pocket for taking the Aluminess off even though it was under warranty.

So, so far it looks like you've found a better shop! Good luck, keep us posted.

[JoeH]

There's a lot of information in there for your first post Fulthrottle and most of it is spot on. But all the doom and gloom can be prevented by monitoring EOT and ECT with a Scanguage or Edge CTS. If a 6.0 PSD owner is proactive and monitors the delta spread, when the time comes simply replace the oil cooler with the sligtly improved Ford OEM part and do an EGR delete or replace with the BPD cooler or the like (Sinister makes one) if you want to stay smog friendly. I turned mine off with a tuner and plan on doing a delete when I start seeing signs of clogging. 73,000 miles and going strong. And still using Ford coolant. I think the coolant gets a bad rap. Stay on top of the service intervals. Ford's mistake was to recommend not touching it until 100,000 miles. Either way, install a coolant filter and/or an ELC if you like.

Unless there's been an EGR cooler rupture there should be no need to replace the head studs and gaskets.

And unless you've personally retrofitted a 4wd van, the insanely expensive bulletproofdiesel oil cooler does not fit.

[Fulthrotl]

Originally Posted by JoeH

There's a lot of information in there for your first post Fulthrottle and most of it is spot on. But all the doom and gloom can be prevented by monitoring EOT and ECT with a Scanguage or Edge CTS. If a 6.0 PSD owner is proactive and monitors the delta spread, when the time comes simply replace the oil cooler with the sligtly improved Ford OEM part and do an EGR delete or replace with the BPD cooler or the like (Sinister makes one) if you want to stay smog friendly. I turned mine off with a tuner and plan on doing a delete when I start seeing signs of clogging. 73,000 miles and going strong. And still using Ford coolant. I think the coolant gets a bad rap. Stay on top of the service intervals. Ford's mistake was to recommend not touching it until 100,000 miles. Either way, install a coolant filter and/or an ELC if you like.

Unless there's been an EGR cooler rupture there should be no need to replace the head studs and gaskets.

And unless you've personally retrofitted a 4wd van, the insanely expensive bulletproofdiesel oil cooler does not fit.

the ford gold coolant factory requirement from ford was for ford's benefit, to stream
their product flow, and adopt a "one size fits all" approach. ford gold coolant throws
precipitate when thermally shocked.

that, and casting sand from block casting will clog the enhanced oil cooler as well.
there is one more row of plates is the only difference... so it takes 10% longer to plug.

what part of the bpd oil cooler does not fit, the fitment of the cooler itself, or the
hoses, or the oil filter block? BPD just came out with the E series cooler a few
months ago, and i'd bet a cheeseburger that if you contacted them, they'd work
with you for a solution.

i agree that the OEM oil cooler can work, and BPD sells their "semi bulletproof"
kit with their EGR cooer and an oem oil cooler.

yesterday, driving home from fontana, engine air intake at 30 mph was 104,
oil temp was 197, and coolant was 189. trans was 170. and nothing can get
plugged up, and i don't have to worry about it like i was watching someone
who'd had a heart attack use a stairmaster.... that's worth something to me.

like i said at the beginning of my post, this was not gonna be a cheap post.

[Gnarvan]

10k to make necessary upgrade changes to a "Fine Engine".......Hmmmmmm

[BroncoHauler]

Please don't take this into a gas vs. diesel thread. There's more than enough existing discussions on that topic, and long ago it was determined that no more gas vs. diesel threads should be posted, frankly because each person has their opinion and more than likely, nothing posted on this forum will change that mindset. This thread is about Jeffrey's experience and should stay just that.


Herb

[jwintersteller]

Originally Posted by BroncoHauler

Please don't take this into a gas vs. diesel thread. There's more than enough existing discussions on that topic, and long ago it was determined that no more gas vs. diesel threads should be posted, frankly because each person has their opinion and more than likely, nothing posted on this forum will change that mindset. This thread is about Jeffrey's experience and should stay just that.
Herb

Ditto!



In an odd way I'm looking forward to being in your shoes Jeffrey,
I know that some day I will have to do those upgrades and I know that once I do, I'll never have to worry about all these 6.0 issues again. As long as I can find the right shop to do it.

John

[Jeffrey]

I spoke with BulletProof Diesel before purchasing their kit. The external oil cooler is made to mount behind the stock E series bumper, and hardware and proper length hoses are provided. Since I (and many of us here) run custom front bumpers, the BPD kit may not fit especially with winches and other stuff. They would have taken my van in to be the prototype of a kit for SMBs but they would have needed it for a month in Mesa, AZ for the R&D. I couldn't do that. If you're doing the job yourself or with a creative and personable mechanic, a mounting location can be found and correct length hoses can be fabbed or found. With the local dealer doing my job and part of it is under warranty, I don't have the luxury of the required time to do the custom install. Since I have 45K miles already and have been running a coolant filter for a couple of years now, I figure most of the casting sands and particles have already dislodged and are caught in either the replaced filter, the now replaced oil cooler fins, or the replaced coolant. So I went with the BPD EGR cooler kit with the newer style 2012 Ford oil cooler included. I also replaced the head gaskets before they went bad and installed ARP head studs, all to ensure a longer afterlife.