Transmission whoas... weird symptom

TomsBeast · 01-01-2018, 10:43 AM

It's an E4OD, w/transfer gear case bolted to it. 191k on the clock.

Symptom #1: When cold, it seems as though the torque converter locks up, typically in reverse, enough to stall the engine. It's an intermittent problem, but not a good sign.

Symptom #2: Loud ratcheting sounds, as though it's popping out of gear, only on deceleration. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz! Clicking period gets further apart as speed goes to zero. I did my best to diagnose it, before it completely gave up the ghost, it happens in every gear, both w/overdrive on and off. Overdrive is functioning properly, as is shifting. It happened once on an offramp a few days ago, then happened 2-3 more times in Death Valley while descending the South Pass (alluvial fan dirt road w/rocks, bumps, etc) into Saline Valley.

On our way out of the valley, it got reeeeeal bad, did it on every deceleration headed toward Hwy 190, even on pavement headed toward Father Crowley Point. I had to abort our holiday trip.

Luckily, I was able nurse it 350 miles back home to the Bay Area, having to brake with a little accelerator at the same time, to keep a load on the gear train on even the slightest grade. I'm just glad we didn't need to have it towed, as I was fully loaded, and flat towing my Samurai behind.

I've been doing some internet searches, and don't see anything associated with deceleration. I really want to diagnose this thing before taking it out (myself).

Any ideas?

larrie · 01-01-2018, 04:44 PM

Have you checked the fluid level and color? The color should be red. Am assuming no noises in park or neutral when reving the engine? Did you slip it into neutral while on a downhill to see if the noises went away?

JWA · 01-02-2018, 05:44 AM

Larrie's suggestion would be my first step too---all too often trans fluid can be an issue and something too many don't maintain properly. Not saying that's your only issue but its worth looking into.

Also here's another site immensely helpful: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum69/

HTH

TomsBeast · 01-02-2018, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrie

Have you checked the fluid level and color? The color should be red. Am assuming no noises in park or neutral when reving the engine? Did you slip it into neutral while on a downhill to see if the noises went away?

I'll check the fluid, not sure why I didn't think to do that. I check the levels religiously, (I make the sign of the cross over it, lol) particularly before a big trip.

No noises in park or neutral, slippage in any gears, no abnormal shifts, like you'd expect from a trans with low fluid or one about to expire. The noise goes away when stopped. When in park. When the gear train is loaded by the engine.

I did slip it into neutral a couple times while coasting and it was 'skipping', reved the engine a little too, which had no effect (meaning it was still skipping). The more I let it skip, the more apt it was to do it again. It felt as though it was spring loaded to stay in gear, accelerating helps it pop back into mesh position, coasting forces it out of gear.

One of the guys on the PowerStrokeNation forum suggested the problem may lie in the transfer gearcase.

I've got a couple things to check after work today. Thanks!

MadScience · 01-02-2018, 01:16 PM

Sounds like I wasn't the only one running into van related headaches in death valley last week. Glad you made it home OK!

I would agree that ratcheting and clicking is something I associate more with a transfer case than a transmission. I presume you ran the transfer case though its different gears?

Still 190k isn't out of range for a E4OD to go out.

86Scotty · 01-03-2018, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadScience

Still 190k isn't out of range for a E4OD to go out.

I didn't want to be the first to say it. I hope it's the TX case. Those are cheap and you can swap it yourself in your driveway in about an hour.

Standing by for a fluid report. Oh, by the way, your TX case has a fill and drain plug so check it too. Grab 2 quarts (I think) of whatever goes in it and just drain it if you never have. If metal chips come out your problem is likely solved. Remember to crack the FILL plug up top BEFORE draining it. That way you know you can get it out before you drain all your fluid, so that you can refill it. I don't think stuck drain/fill plugs are common on these cases but they are on many trannys/gearboxes so it's a smart thing to do.

TomsBeast · 01-03-2018, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86Scotty

...I hope it's the TX case. Those are cheap and you can swap it yourself...

Me too. It's a Borg Warner 1356.

The T-case has a mix-n-match linkage of Ford parts that has never been exactly right (goes into 4wd high, but not enough travel to get into 4wd low).

I've known about this since I've owned it, the PO said "Gee, the shop who did the conversion told me to bring it back, and I never did"

I crawl under to manually shift it when I need 4wd low, until I get around to building my own linkage that works (UJOR doesn't make one that fits my application).

It's very possible that the linkage is not adjusted correctly, allowing it to all of the sudden start popping out of gear.

I didn't put any work into it last night, too tired after work, but I'll drive it tonight in 4wd high and see if symptoms go away, drain the fluid and have a look.

TomsBeast · 01-03-2018, 09:06 PM

Transmission fluid is pink, smells as it should.

I confirmed the t-case is in fact a Borg Warner 1356 (thru internet pictures)

Took it for a drive, shifted the t-case in and out of all it;s options. I was able to get the symptoms to go away in 4wd low only. Turns out this t-case has an oil pump and pick up inside. Checked the T-case fluid level.

I measured only 6oz of oil that drained out of it, spec calls for 2qts

Looks like there's a small weep at the rear driveshaft yoke. Real small leak at the seal.

I used a clean drain pan, and I sifted through the oil at the bottom of the drain pan with my fingers and wiped with a clean cloth, no metal fines, no glitter, no plastic.

I pumped in 2qts of fresh Mercon V spec ATF, then manually shifted it back into 2wd high and took it for a drive.

Still buzzing/popping out of gear on deceleration, and now in reverse. Wait, I was flat towing and couldn't back up, so I never tried reverse. That's probably not new. Makes sense because the gear pressure direction the T-case gears see on decel, would be the same direction when putting the transmission in reverse, right?

I just watched a few youtube videos on rebuilding this T-case, and I saw these little plastic rub pads on the BW1356 T-case molded onto the aluminum shift forks. No surprise they'd get warm and wear real fast with a low oil condition. A guy on one of the other forums posted up some pics of his plastic pads, that had worn and fell off the aluminum shift fork, causing a big gap, and sloppiness.

What a lousy design, (says the guy who let his t-case get low on oil) but I digress

With the wear pads melted or laying in the bottom of the t-case sump, and now excessive play in the shift fork and engagement collar, I could imagine the slider now popping out of engagement

I guess the t-case has to come out, and get bench inspected

larrie · 01-03-2018, 09:53 PM

The plastic pads seem like a good possibility. Before pulling it TC I would talk/take it to a reputable shop in your area to see what they think. Not saying the folks here and else where do not know what they are talking about. Just thinking that a second opinion from someone who deals with similar TCs might be in order.

86Scotty · 01-03-2018, 11:03 PM

Another really easy option is to get on Car-part.com and see how cheap you can get a low mileage one. They don't really ever cause much trouble. Still might be easier to just swap another one in.

Don't feel bad about the low-fluid issue. Most of us have way too much maintenance to keep up with.