Validity of Bullet Proofing

[Belize]

Hi,

I am quite new to the realm of powerstroke engines. I am thinking of purchasing a 2006 van that the owner says was bullet proofed. He has supplied the invoice, and it appears that it was a complete job. I would love to have the experts take a look and confirm that it is indeed a proper bullet proofing job. Attached is the invoice. Any advice or comments very welcomed. Thanks!

[carringb]

^This one would be a hard pass for me.

-The work likely was done after the motor was trashed. You don't normally rebuild a cylinder head as part of a bulletproofing. While doing a top-end rebuild is fine, I'd be more concerned if they didn't disclose the extent of the damage, and have some backup to justify not doing a short block swap. If the damage happened while cranking a hydrolock condition (I've done this) a top end job is completely reasonable. If it happened while driving, I'd be very surprised if the bottom end survived unscathed.

-The upgrades seem to have been done with increasing power rather than longevity. They added a tuner, and Addicted diesel turbo and possibly larger injectors, and a "power chip". Performance tuning on the 6.0 is iffy. Stacking a tune with a chip is playing Russian Roulette. The 6.0 cooling system is only ok at stock power levels. Anything more than stock can quickly overheat things.

-DEX COOL WTF??? The 6.0 has never been DexCool approved. From a chemistry standpoint, it's probably fine since they replaced the water pump and EGR cooler (but not the oil cooler???). The real problem is that nobody else will ever expect DexCool in a PowerStroke, and any top-offs probably resulted in coolant mixing. DexCool does not like being mixed with other coolants, and you end up with acidic goo deposits.

[ShuttlePilot]

Hi Belize, though that is a long list of work done I agree with Carringb that this motor likely had a catastrophic failure that prompted the need for the work. That by itself isn't a deal breaker. My issue is that the list of repairs isn't what you see when an owner is improving reliability (same reasons Carringb pointed out). As I've mentioned before if this van is dirt cheap, exactly what your looking for, and you are prepared to have that motor removed/replaced and done to your specification, then go for it. Otherwise I'd pass.

To me, if your looking for a 6.0 that you are going to trust is "bulletproofed", I cringe every time I type that, I would be looking for an original owner, motor was running fine, or only had a minor issue, and that owner took it to one of the known 6.0 mechanics, the work done was the usual "reliability" upgrades and spent all the money we've mentioned before.


- Eric

[Fork-N-Road]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the above engine was trashed (though it obviously may have been). When I had my 6.0 bullet proofed, it was recommended to have fresh heads redone (which I did) at the same time and I wasn't having any other issues.

Looks like some nice upgraded parts, but I would be concerned about how it was tuned and how it was driven. EGR delete could be an issue if you need to smog the vehicle. I don't see a coolant filter on the invoice and I have been reading here that the wiring harness is the next weak link that should be addressed. Good luck!

[ShuttlePilot]

Fork-N-Road, you are correct that just because heads were worked on separately is not a sure sign of a huge failure. It's pretty common practice to install new and improved valve guides if the heads are off. With the 6.0 rocker setup of one rocker arm to a bridge between two valves there are non liner forces that wear out the factory guides relatively quickly. There are newer valve guides that are much more durable. This motor could of had that done. We may never know for sure. It's just if I'm spending Belize's money I don't have a lot of confidence that the work done is going to give a big leap in reliability.



This is what I'm looking for on a 6.0 that was worked on for reliability.



Minimum

-HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump) - 2004.5+ not known for failure. 2003-2004.5 Known to fail and needs replaced.
-Injection High Pressure Oil Piping 2003-2004.5 - These years of motors have an entire different distribution piping than the 2004.5+ years have. Replace all piping under valve covers or avoid these manufacture dates all together.
-HPOP Snap to Connect fitting (2004.5+)- Updated Ford, not Doorman, one piece part.
-Dummy plugs (2004.5+) - Ford, not Doorman, updated part.
-Standpipes (2004.5+) - Ford, not Doorman, updated part.
-IPR (Injection Pressure Regulator) Updated screen with metal screen element, definitely not doorman or Ford plastic.
-HPOP Oil reservoir screen - Updated screen with metal screen element, definitely not doorman or Ford plastic.
- Fuel regulator - Ford, not ebay, blue spring update.
-EGR cooler - Bulletproof Diesel EGR cooler.
- EGR Valve - Replace with Ford, not Doorman. Some people clean them I'd want a new one.
-New oil cooler - Ford updated part, not Doorman, .
-Water pump - Bulletproofdiesel or Dieselsite With metal impeller.
-Turbo - Cleaned and stainless steel unison ring installed OR new Garret turbo.
-Turbo - Ford updated (rigid pipe style) oil fill and drain pipes.
-FICM (Fuel Injection Control Module) - Power supply side replaced with either Bulletproof diesel or FicmRepair.com. This is not a tune, only upgrading the power supply, although a 40hp ficm tune would probably be fine on non-head stud motor. I have this and it's nice.
-Coolant - Flush and Ford Gold replaced with a CAT EC-1 rated ELC coolant
-Coolant Filter - Install one.
-Alternator - Upgrade and increase capacity.
- Batteries - Best new ones you can afford. Make sure they are same age and brand.
-Serpentine Belt System - Replace all Idlers and tentioner. Install Ford, not Doorman/napa/autozone, belt.
- Vacuum Pump - Replace with Ford, not doorman/napa/autozone.
- Filters - Replace both fuel filters, Ford filters, not wix/napa/K&N.

Optional

-Head Studs - ARP head stud kit. (Engine removed) Not necessary in van if stock tune/never had a tuner.
-Heads - New or refurb with new improved guides.
-Heads - "ringed" heads. This is done mostly in high HP trucks and not needed in Vans with stock tune but I would consider it if the heads are off.
- Head gaskets - If new gaskets were installed which brand and model.
- Push rods - If heads came off. Ford issued a maintenance directive to install a shorter push rod. (part # from 6.4??)
- Lifters - If heads came off, The 6.0 roller lifters wear out. These are a very common part across several manufactures. Replace with name brand.
-injectors (over 150k motor) - Original or ???? I'd have to research as there are junk injectors out there.
- Engine electric harness - Ford part
- Glow plug harness - Ford part
- Injection harness - Ford part
- Glow plugs - Ford part
- Fan Clutch - Ford part


I'm probably forgetting something but that is the list I'd be looking for. Or that is what I would do If you handed me your 6.0 and said make it as reliable as you can.

- Eric

[JoeH]

Hard to say what happened to that motor or what the PO got talked into. But aside from the odd stacking of the SCT tuner and chip (they both do somewhat similar things in advancing the timing and thus HP) it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary. Not sure I'd do the FASS fuel system unless going to bigger nozzle injectors. Invoice appears more like what the type of diesel shop would do that will also put stacks on your truck if you want them so you can roll coal.


Anyhoo, the only thing I would add to what's already been said is a relatively inexpensive upgrade is the 6.4 pan and internal transmission filter.

[carringb]

Shuttle Pilot's list is great! This should be a sticky. Does this forum still support that?

Re: HPOP... Besides the notes above, ANY HPOP may have been damaged if the HPOP sump screen was plugged and imploded. Which happens from running aftermarket filters which allows too much debris to bypass.

[BroncoHauler]

Originally Posted by carringb

Shuttle Pilot's list is great! This should be a sticky. Does this forum still support that?

Re: HPOP... Besides the notes above, ANY HPOP may have been damaged if the HPOP sump screen was plugged and imploded. Which happens from running aftermarket filters which allows too much debris to bypass.

Done. I also locked the thread as they always turn into endless discussion thread reducing their effectiveness IMO. If there's a strong consensus otherwise, I could open the thread up.


Herb

[JoeH]

OP, keep in mind you'll get different opinions from the van guys in this forum vs the diesel enthusiasts on your thread in the powerstroke forum.


Good luck in your decision.