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Old 03-14-2014, 06:19 AM   #11
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Just go get one of those from a salvage yard. I guarantee it's the same pretensioner on about every Ford vehicle, probably for years, so you probably don't need to find a Ford van seat. They can be hard to find anyway. Just look at the plug and match it. Then tether it out of the way somewhere so it doesn't flop around. Probably a $5 fix.


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Old 03-14-2014, 03:03 PM   #12
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Okay, maybe I'm dense here, but your comment about just going to get one from a junkyard touches on the confusion I had when I looked up that part number. Which is that it looks like the normal part that everyone would have on their airbag system (I say that because it came up in searches looking like a common replacement part, and because your comment of just finding one in a junkyard echoes that idea.) But I mean, I already HAVE one of those, right? Because I have a seat, as delivered, with a pre-tensioner/airbag/etc. all working fine. I would have expected that the "special" part was somewhat unusual, because how many people remove the seat and need to block that off? Conversely, if it's a normal part, well then I already have one... right?

I'm starting to wonder if the bulletin talking about "no airbag" *wasn't* a typo and they really meant "without airbag," since the part they recommend be installed seems to be the normal airbag sensor module (which of course I already have). Here is the relevant text excerpted from the Bulletin, with some of it bolded by me:

This bulletin was developed to assist final-stage manufacturers in avoiding potential illumination of air bag lights. Ford has identified the following as potential final-stage manufacturer-related causes of air bag light illumination:

seat wiring harness disconnected from seat belt buckle pretensioners
seat wiring harness damaged during final-stage manufacturing process
seats removed and/or replaced with other seats
seat removed in order to eliminate the seating position

Final-stage manufacturers removing the front passenger seat from their final assembly process in vehicles equipped without the optional passenger air bag must replace the air bag Electronic Crash Sensor (ECS) module with service part number F7UB-14A685-A to prevent the air bag light from coming on.


Since the bulletin is from 1997, could they be referring (in part) to 1996 vans, which may not have had a passenger airbag? Sorry if this sounds dumb, but if so feel free to set me straight. I am not averse to DIY, but don't particularly want to "kludge" this system. Thing is, I am a bit confused at the moment! And of course, fantasizing about all that glorious SPACE I could have without the seat there (items there properly restrained, of course).

Thanks,
Viva
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:59 AM   #13
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Here's something else to consider------hopefully not adding to your confusion....

Run the van without the seat for as long as you need---there is no real downside or adverse effect on the SRS's ability to deploy when needed. Disconnect the pre-tensioner plug, remove the seat and you're good to go.

Removing that seat will trigger the warning light but that's all. It might be slightly annoying seeing that icon lit up----my own has been on about a year because I have a faulty connection from the wiring harness.

HTH
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:43 PM   #14
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWA

Removing that seat will trigger the warning light but that's all.
Are you sure about that? Only reason I ask is that last year when my airbag light started blinking a fault code upon startup (and then went to a solid light), from what I could tell, the airbag system as a whole was non-operational while the solid light was on. (A that time I never meant to leave the solid light on, but was just trying to figure out the repercussions in case it took me a while to find/fix the problem; as it turned out it was easy once I figured out how the fault code flashes worked.)

So to summarize: I thought that when the airbag light was on, that meant the system was disabled (i.e. my driver's side airbag would then not be operational). Is that not true? If it's the latter, I could possibly live with the light (although I suppose even if it is true I would then have no way of knowing if there WAS a fault on my side?).

Appreciate the further input, as I have not found much elsewhere. And now a buddy is eagerly awaiting removing his unused passenger seat (E-450) once I find out the scoop
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:28 PM   #15
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

It's a common problem for people with swivel front seats to have the airbag light come on due to the plug underneath the seat coming loose (when you swivel the seat, sometimes it stretches out the cable). In my 1998 E250, it's happened several times. From my understanding (and I could be wrong), when the airbag "error" light is on in the dash, the airbag system will not deploy (it's deactivated). Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. So, if that's correct, then simply unplugging the connector will deactivate your entire airbag system, not just the passenger side.

And, purely conjecture here, but I would imagine that if you found a junkyard that had somewhat late model shuttle buses based on the E-van chassis, usually they have the front seat removed and might have the module you need.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:15 PM   #16
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Brian,

That's what I was thinking. Last year I had the issue of the connector becoming "disturbed" after a lot of passenger seat swiveling, and I got an airbag error code. My understanding from web searching was that while the airbag light was on solidly lit (which it was after the codes were done flashing) then the whole airbag system is disabled. I do not want this (if in fact it is true).

At that time I was able to "read" the code, trace it to the passenger seat connector, reseat it, and bring everything back to normal (I had a passenger with me then). That's not the case now, but is how I got the idea (like you) that the airbag system would be entirely disabled if/when the light was on.
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:31 PM   #17
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Interesting thread as I was thinking of doing this when I wanted the extra space.

Not wanting to further confuse the discussion .. what about using an already fired pre-tensioner? I don't know what happens electronically but at least you don't have a loaded missile laying on the floor somewhere.

Ray
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:47 AM   #18
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

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Interesting thread as I was thinking of doing this when I wanted the extra space.

Not wanting to further confuse the discussion .. what about using an already fired pre-tensioner? I don't know what happens electronically but at least you don't have a loaded missile laying on the floor somewhere.

Ray
Pardon my not answering - just saw that the thread had been added to. That's an interesting idea.

I've been searching and reading, and if anything I'm more confused than ever! The instructions for removing a pre-tensioner make it sound super hazardous (and I don't doubt it), but.... then that thing is in the van all the time (even when there is no-one in the passenger seat). What happens to that energy if a person gets into an accident and there is no-one in the passenger seat. The pre-tensioner would still fire, right? Only it would not be connected to the other side of the seatbelt. So where does the energy go? And if the cylinder is set not to fire then... well if that were the case the "plain" tensioner wouldn't be dangerous, so that doesn't sound right.

I'm pretty disheartened by the whole deal right now. I can't really find any "solid" info, the part mentioned in the bulletin looks like a part my van already has (?), and I understand that no shop is probably going to want to touch an "unusual" request (such as removing the passenger seat). Argh! I'm not using it at all and could SO use the space.

I read where some people (not specifically with Ford vans though) put a 3.3 ohm resistor somewhere (perhaps in the "plug" that's under the passenger seat? But that info seems a little vague for me to go on without more knowledge.

Anyway, thanks for adding to the thread - your idea is interesting.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:45 AM   #19
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

I think you are overthinking this. I would unbolt the seat, unplug the plug and leave it. You will notice an airbag light flashing on the dash. Put a piece of black electric tape over it. I've done this on countless cars (that I was driving, NOT that I was selling, just to be clear) and had no problems. I'm pretty sure modern cars are smart enough to still fire your airbag even if the passenger one is reading an error. Oh, and it's not really that dangerous IMO to fool with a passenger seat, pretensioner, etc. I've moved seats around, unbolted these things etc. and never had a problem. It's not like they are an IED. I really think you will be fine. I'm sure someone will probably disagree though.

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Old 04-03-2014, 06:00 AM   #20
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Re: Can I just remove the passenger seat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Scotty
I think you are overthinking this. I would unbolt the seat, unplug the plug and leave it. You will notice an airbag light flashing on the dash. Put a piece of black electric tape over it. I've done this on countless cars (that I was driving, NOT that I was selling, just to be clear) and had no problems. I'm pretty sure modern cars are smart enough to still fire your airbag even if the passenger one is reading an error. Oh, and it's not really that dangerous IMO to fool with a passenger seat, pretensioner, etc. I've moved seats around, unbolted these things etc. and never had a problem. It's not like they are an IED. I really think you will be fine. I'm sure someone will probably disagree though.

I'll chime in once again and then leave this to y'all to banter over.......

My passenger seat is having an issue with what I'm sure is the wiring to the pre-tensioner, my air bag dash light is on and I have no concern my other SRS components will work if the ECM tells them to fire.

FWIW the dash light is similar to the CEL indicator---it doesn't warn of the system having failed completely and no longer operative at all. In order to pull codes about the SRS a higher level diagnostic code scanner would be needed. Not sure what brand or model number would do that for us DIY's but its probably safe to say most of us here don't have or won't be buying such a device.

If I wanted to run sans right seat I'd simply unplug the pre-tensioner AFTER battery removal and a 15 minute wait time, secure the connector/harness somewhere safe and not worry about it. As for storing the connector/harness----remove the right side footwell trim piece, wrap the very end in a ZipLoc bag, tuck the pigtail lead under the OEM carpet and leave it in the footwell for later use. With the seat removed this would be an easy task.
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