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Old 04-12-2009, 01:20 PM   #1
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Espar Hydronic for water heating

For those that have the flat plate and the hydronic Espar. If you use the heater after the engine is cold you will notice that it takes sometime to get any real hot water out of the flate plate. Reason is that you are heating 7 gallon of water in the engine and the engine is a big giant heat sink also the colder it gets the longer it takes. We have a way for you to get almost instant heat now. It involves installing a thermostat and check valve. It will maintain the loop at 160*. When it gets to 160* it will then allow the water in the motor to be heated. Not sure how much water the flate plate loop would hold but I do know that you will have all the hot water you can use in 5 minutes or less.

Greg
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Old 04-12-2009, 02:24 PM   #2
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Hi Greg, Thanks fort the idea.

I try to fire up my hydronic a few minutes before I need a lot of hot H2O. I think the system is designed so that the heated coolant leaving the hydronic passes through the flat plate on it's way to the engine, providing faster service than if we had to wait for the whole engine to reach temp. I don't use mine much. I hope it does work that way!

What I am trying to find is an independent 12v. pump to put in the line that will simply circulate the coolant through the system. When I park after a drive and want to wash up, I get warm water for half a minute before the flat plate cools, yet the engine is full of hot coolant for a while. If I can just circulate that coolant for a few minutes while I am using hot water, I won't have to fire up the hydronic just to use the pump in it. I'll bet I can take an outdoor shower with the heat that is still in the engine, if I can only get it to circulate with the engine off. Got any pumps like this?

Jeffrey (whose Airtronic has been working fine this past winter!)
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:03 PM   #3
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey
Hi Greg, Thanks fort the idea.

I try to fire up my hydronic a few minutes before I need a lot of hot H2O. I think the system is designed so that the heated coolant leaving the hydronic passes through the flat plate on it's way to the engine, providing faster service than if we had to wait for the whole engine to reach temp. I don't use mine much. I hope it does work that way!

What I am trying to find is an independent 12v. pump to put in the line that will simply circulate the coolant through the system. When I park after a drive and want to wash up, I get warm water for half a minute before the flat plate cools, yet the engine is full of hot coolant for a while. If I can just circulate that coolant for a few minutes while I am using hot water, I won't have to fire up the hydronic just to use the pump in it. I'll bet I can take an outdoor shower with the heat that is still in the engine, if I can only get it to circulate with the engine off. Got any pumps like this?

Jeffrey (whose Airtronic has been working fine this past winter!)
Yes the flat plate being feed first does help but you have to remember you are still warming up cold water from the engine too. As for a external pump that is no problem at all and you will be able to show no problem. We have a 12V pump that will do that. What we have takes a 3/4 heater hose. You could adapt it down. We can get 5/8 but buying them one at a time in expensive. The 3/4 size we buy 50 at a time and the price is much better.

Greg
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:20 PM   #4
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What I am trying to find is an independent 12v. pump to put in the line that will simply circulate the coolant through the system. When I park after a drive and want to wash up, I get warm water for half a minute before the flat plate cools, yet the engine is full of hot coolant for a while. If I can just circulate that coolant for a few minutes while I am using hot water, I won't have to fire up the hydronic just to use the pump in it. I'll bet I can take an outdoor shower with the heat that is still in the engine, if I can only get it to circulate with the engine off. Got any pumps like this?
Jeffery
This is exactly what John K included for me in my build. Its a small 12v circulation pump mounted on the frame rail between the engine and the flat plate. It is controlled by a switch mounted next to the radio switch. It does work, but we don't use it a lot. It made my list on the waste of $$ post. Mounted on the rail makes it about as noisy as the extreme air compressor when that kicks on. Let me know if you want the particulars.
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Old 04-13-2009, 04:44 AM   #5
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

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Originally Posted by charlie56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What I am trying to find is an independent 12v. pump to put in the line that will simply circulate the coolant through the system. When I park after a drive and want to wash up, I get warm water for half a minute before the flat plate cools, yet the engine is full of hot coolant for a while. If I can just circulate that coolant for a few minutes while I am using hot water, I won't have to fire up the hydronic just to use the pump in it. I'll bet I can take an outdoor shower with the heat that is still in the engine, if I can only get it to circulate with the engine off. Got any pumps like this?
Jeffery
This is exactly what John K included for me in my build. Its a small 12v circulation pump mounted on the frame rail between the engine and the flat plate. It is controlled by a switch mounted next to the radio switch. It does work, but we don't use it a lot. It made my list on the waste of $$ post. Mounted on the rail makes it about as noisy as the extreme air compressor when that kicks on. Let me know if you want the particulars.
Not sure what John would have used, but noisey pump this is not.

Greg
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:36 AM   #6
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Good replies.

Greg, I believe that all the hoses in the flat plate system are 3/4" ID, so your pump sounds good to me. Please email me more info on your unit. While I don't think I will worry about noise too much for the little time it's in use, perhaps isolating the pump from the frame with an insulated mounting pad could keep it quieter.
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Old 04-13-2009, 11:29 AM   #7
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey
Good replies.

Greg, I believe that all the hoses in the flat plate system are 3/4" ID, so your pump sounds good to me. Please email me more info on your unit. While I don't think I will worry about noise too much for the little time it's in use, perhaps isolating the pump from the frame with an insulated mounting pad could keep it quieter.

Email sent with pdf attachment.

Greg
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:21 PM   #8
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Nice pump, Greg. I'm ordering one from you today.

Wouldn't running this pump after a long drive after the engine is shut down, in hot weather, tend to cool the engine down faster by circulating coolant through the system and through the radiator? Now if I could just remotely turn on the radiator fan.....

Jeffrey
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Old 04-13-2009, 06:04 PM   #9
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey
Nice pump, Greg. I'm ordering one from you today.

Wouldn't running this pump after a long drive after the engine is shut down, in hot weather, tend to cool the engine down faster by circulating coolant through the system and through the radiator? Now if I could just remotely turn on the radiator fan.....

Jeffrey

Water does not circulate through the rad. But it would cool faster if you ran the vans heater system on high. But it would really get hot inside.

Greg
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:38 PM   #10
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Re: Espar Hydronic for water heating

Greg,

Is there any trick to just tell the hydronic pump to turn on, without the burner?

Also, so that I make sure I understand the typical SMB coolant flow setup (mine is a 2006), does the heated coolant from the hydronic unit flow to the flat plate, then on to the junction with the engine coolant loop? Does the heated fluid that reaches the engine loop get forced through the engine because SMB installed some sort of a one way valve on the engine coolant line, (between the feed and return from the hydronic unit) to prevent short circuiting?

Finally, my hydronic unit is loud compared to my airtronic unit. a) is that normal? b) I've seen a muffler advertised for the ESPAR, and they said to put it on the inlet side as this is where the noise is coming from. What can you say about this? Does it really nock the decibels down?

Thanks in advance, Steve
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