Water damage to panels used in Sportsmobile interior

[86Scotty]

That's a bummer but any panel in an SMB can be accessed, removed, replaced easier than you think. It all bolts and screws together, just might take longer. Luckily this happened on your way there instead of on your way home.

SMB is no different than any other major RV manufacturer. They are holding on to some old bad habits which save them money and of course save weight. If you saw the 1/4" panel crackerbox construction that the big RV brands are putting out you'd still be proud of your SMB.

Hang in there. I always like to remind people that you're driving a car AND a house down the road. It's an iffy combination at best but they've made it work over time. Still, time and vibrations will always challenge the plumbing and electrical systems of the house you're driving down the road.

[grinnelljd]

We arrived at Sportsmobile North shortly after 0700 hrs this morning since Nancy had told us the guys start there at 0700 and we wanted to give them as much time in the day to make the repairs as we could. I shouldn't have been so concerned about the time requirement as they made short work of the job.

They replaced the two damaged aisle side panels of the dinette as well as the damaged panel on the back side of the galley cabinet in about two hours. It may have been quicker, but they were done by the time we came back from breakfast at Nick's Kitchen (great place by the way).

I questioned Jim a bit about the waterproofness of the panels they use and mentioned ArmorCore by name. He said that they use a veneered plywood composite. Couldn't or wouldn't give me more than that, but I did get some samples to test for myself. On the plus side, the repair was free (under warranty) and it apparently isn't an expensive repair anyway given that the material itself is relatively inexpensive and the repair time short.

I'm still not happy with how the panels are so readily damaged by water, but I can't say enough positive things about Sportsmobile North's customer service. They have always been very friendly, helpful and more than willing to do whatever it takes to make things good to keep you happy.

[shadetreevanman]

Glad to hear they got you fixed up. "Veneered plywood composite" sounds like a fancy word for MDF with a vinyl wood grain veneer stuck to it. Basically, Ikea furniture stuck in a van. The sad part is as soon as you introduce water again, these panels will swell up just like the old ones did.

Those panels would make good templates to cut out some replacement quality plywood panels someday.

[marret]

Agree.

Glad they fixed it quickly and with no issue.

[Scalf77]

A link to ArmorCore Spec Sheet

Yes it is a plywood core between MDF. The key to making sure that it doesn't swell again, would be if they coated the cut exposed edges with something. Even the exposed edges of plywood can swell. I don't think the material used is the problem.

-greg

[grinnelljd]

Originally Posted by Scalf77

A link to ArmorCore Spec Sheet

Yes it is a plywood core between MDF. The key to making sure that it doesn't swell again, would be if they coated the cut exposed edges with something. Even the exposed edges of plywood can swell. I don't think the material used is the problem.

-greg

Thanks; I had seen that ArmorCore spec sheet when I went looking for more info on how water resistant the material is. They don't really mention water resistance in the spec sheet, but an employee at Sportsmobile West mentioned that the material is water resistant, during an interview with the Russos. (see the YouTube video I linked earlier in the thread)

The plan is to try to prevent any water from coming into contact with any of the cut edges. When they installed the dinette panels they used what appears to be a silicon caulking to seal the edge where the ArmorCore panel meets the loncoin flooring. I'm going to go through the van and similarly seal every joint that I can. I can see that the joints were sealed during the build, but given the damage I had, I guess there were gaps in the original coverage.

For the exposed edges hidden behind T molding, such as with the table top, bathroom door, etc. I plan to remove the T molding as it is just friction fit into a groove around the edge of the panel. This will allow me to waterproof the edge and replace the T molding. I'm hoping that this will prevent a simple spill on the table top from becoming a ruined table top as the liquid shoudn't be able to soak into the cut edge.

I do feel better now, after my visit with Sportsmobile North, knowing that even if a panel does become damaged in the future, it will be a rather inexpensive and quick fix.

[gahamby]

From what I've experienced in marine and residential construction, If you don't seal the end grain it will wick up water and expand. MDF is just about purpose made to be a sponge. Personally I like West System marine epoxy to seal up end grains. I find silicone only sticks to surfaces that I want to remove it from. Seating the MDF in channel stock of some kind would have been the ticket prior to construction.
On another note I was concerned to see no Teflon tape on those water line connections.
Having looked at that Armor Core spec sheet, I would definitely have sealed the edges with West System epoxy or something like it.

[dabeloe1]

We have a 2008 Sprinter Sportsmobile built in Fresno and the same swelling has occurred in our unit wherever there was a leak. Cabinets below a roof fan leak, swelling around the shower stall and below the sink as well. This swelling is noticeable but small in size and of course occurred after the warranty period was over. But we get so much use out of our rig that we overlook this as a cosmetic issue, the rest of the build has been relatively pain free for 11 years now.

[grinnelljd]

Originally Posted by gahamby

From what I've experienced in marine and residential construction, If you don't seal the end grain it will wick up water and expand. MDF is just about purpose made to be a sponge. Personally I like West System marine epoxy to seal up end grains. I find silicone only sticks to surfaces that I want to remove it from. Seating the MDF in channel stock of some kind would have been the ticket prior to construction.
On another note I was concerned to see no Teflon tape on those water line connections.
Having looked at that Armor Core spec sheet, I would definitely have sealed the edges with West System epoxy or something like it.

I wish I had seen what silicone sealing material they used or thought to ask before departing. I was just so giddy at the fact that it only took a few hours that I wasn't thinking ahead. I know that many people use a PVA glue to seal the edges of MDF panels and I obtained some to seal the seam where the panel meets the loncoin flooring. My initials tests, on the already damaged panel, indicated that it does a good job of keeping water from getting to the cut edge. I have some samples of the panel material from Sportsmobile so I'm going to try the PVA glue on that to see how it fares. If all goes well I may just use the PVA glue to seal all the seams and the cut edges that I can access to minimize the possibility of water getting to it.

Looking at one of the samples of the panel material and comparing it to the ArmorCore photos, I'm starting to wonder if they are using ArmorCore or not as the layers do look different. Regardless of the material, it's going to be best practice to seal the edges against water. It sure would be nice if Sportsmoblie did this by default. I know if I were building one myself I'd be sealing all the edges.


As for the plumbing not having teflon tape. I'm not sure if the hand tightened fitting that they use there needs that. On the hand tightened fitting the actual seal is made by a gasket material inside the fitting that the surface of the piping compresses into. The seal isn't made at the threads.

[moorefc]

You have a number of good inputs, but I wouldnt waste your time with PVA...To seal the edges use a thin epoxy such as west system. Look up PVA, and you will find lots of info such as (thesawguy.com)

Types of PVA Glue

• ​PVA - Polyvinyl Acetate: This type of PVA glue is used for book binding, box sealing, and used in paints. It's typically white in color and dries clear. It's permanent and remains flexible after drying, rather than becoming brittle over time.
• PVA Wood Glue - This glue is a yellow-based glue, used for wood-to-wood joining. This type of glue absorbs into the wood you put it on. This glue holds even better if you clamp the wood while the glue is drying completely.
• PVA Water Resistant Glue- This glue resists mildew and moisture, which are two major benefits of using this particular type of PVA glue. Do not confuse water-resistant with waterproof. This glue, if submerged in water, will not work as well. However, because this work is water-resistant, it can withstand inclement weather of all types. Titebond II and III are good choices for this type of glue.

I have experienced Sportsmobiles with MDF and the newer plywood like material (SMB Austin identified their source as Core-lite, from Dicor Products in 2015) the product may have sold and renamed as Dicor no longer lists it, but I tried to source the material from them in 2015 and they referred me back to SMB. Both have issues with end grain moisture swelling, the latter, much less. Best solution is to remove the panels and epoxy seal the sensitive edges...silicon, even on both floor sides won't be anywhere near perfect as a patch...Under t-molding you might get away with PVA...Obviously one can compromise in non water exposed areas, SMB uses fasteners, not glue generally and the panels are not that difficult to remove. Pics showing some swelling of outer laminate are from non edge sealed, RTV sealed (and RTV resealed) Core-lite. Too bad SMB doesn't seal the edges prior to install, but that costs $$....

Your van will last many years, and, when you wash the floor.............