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Old 05-12-2015, 07:02 PM   #1
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Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Hey all, been a while since I've been on. I have read through all the archives and cannot find any help for my particular brand of frustration.

We got awesome results from our first house battery - over 7 years - and when it finally went out I dutifully went out and purchased another one. Only to find out that the item that failed was actually the Tripp-Lite Charger/Inverter. Which meant that it promptly fried that brand new Lifeline 4D.

I have replaced both the tripp-lite and the house battery and I'm starting out "fresh". But I'm seeing some weird results and wondered if anyone has some suggestions.

To be clear, most everything seems to be working well - the alternator charges the batts, shore power charges the battery using the Tripp-Lite, the Sure Power Separator is, well, separating (its not the recall model).

But when the van is totally at rest, unplugged, nothing turned on, all fuses removed, nothing running except the Xantrex monitor - I'm getting something close to 1 amp draw. It fluctuates between .9 and 1 amp.

This should be down around .02 or .1 at the most I would think.

I have tired to disconnect or take out the fuse of every single thing I can think of and yet the draw is still high. I seem to remember (when everything was working well) that the resting draw was around .1 or something.

You guys got any idea what I might be missing or things to look for? For the record, the cables coming from the battery and anywhere else I could look at seem in good shape, no shorts, etc.

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Old 05-12-2015, 07:22 PM   #2
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Do you have the SMB radio switch, that allows the dash radio to run off the house batteries? Sometimes that has been known to cause issues.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:25 PM   #3
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Have you felt the separator to see if it's hot or warm? If you have an isolator, corrosion is a main issue with them. You can use a process of elimination (kind of like you're doing) by disconnecting the isolator or separator and recheck. I had an alternator cause what is happening to you. It's also possible to have a crushed wire that leak current. Make sure the radio switch is off and also many stereo amps can pull a fair amount. An amp is a fairly large draw and w/o solar or 12v power supply powered by shore power, I can see how you're loosing battery reserves. Some like to keep their shore power charger on 24/7 but I'm not a fan of that for several reasons...not that it doesn't work. If you have more than one battery banked in with the new one, many times the old one will pull its partner down. In the case of a separator it is possible that a bad starting battery can pull the house battery down. Many SMB's were configured to assist start automatically. Pulling the ground wire off the separator keeps it from automatically jumping when you start the engine. If the engine labors to start then the starting battery is bad. Depends on the year and how SMB built the system.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:35 PM   #4
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

We do have the radio switch. It is obviously off but I can try to disconnect it and just be sure there is no leak coming back through it. Our radio system pulls a big current and I can see the jump when I flip the switch and it goes back down when I flip it off.

DaveB, for the 7 year life span of the previous battery, we kept it plugged into shore power 24/7 anytime we weren't using the van and it was marvelous. We could camp for almost 4 days without ever running the engine. Crazy, I know but at least we had good results that way previously. We don't have solar on our van.

The separator is hot, which I think was due to it being plugged in for a while. Should it cool down if you have not had any charge current going to it (from Alternator or Shore power)?
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:39 PM   #5
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Only one house battery and I will try to remove the negative terminal on the separator and start up. Doesn't seem to make sense, unless the isolator went bad? Wouldn't that be the only reason for the house batt to be drained by the starting system/van?
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:42 PM   #6
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Pull the ground terminal at the ground strip that comes from the separator and see if the draw drops off. The surepower separator does pull a bit. I got rid of mine. I think Greg mentioned this in his tutorial he did and it's worth reviewing. I found those things stuck and after trouble with them I installed a Blue Sea 7622 and have never had an issue since but they work for others.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:52 PM   #7
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUKCSUN
Only one house battery and I will try to remove the negative terminal on the separator and start up. Doesn't seem to make sense, unless the isolator went bad? Wouldn't that be the only reason for the house batt to be drained by the starting system/van?
At least what happened to me was when one on my starting batteries failed the separator stuck closed. I wrapped on it with a wrench and it opened. But the bad battery cause the separator to open and close on a constant basis and every time it was closed the alternator could not keep up with the draw. With the engine off as soon as the voltage dropped to below 12.8 (which was very quickly) it did protect the house. The problem was I could never get a good charge from the alternator and the house continued to drop every time the separator closed.
I doubt you're having that problem cause you are seeing a constant 1 amp draw. That is why I'd pull the ground on the separator and see if that IS the draw.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

Well, like so many electrical gremlins, I just had an unusual result.

I went out and disconnected the Aux Radio switch but soon realized that since I had pulled the fuse for that, it probably didn't have any effect.


Then I plugged all the various fuses back in and turned the the radio switch on. Since I had not turned it on after replacing the battery, it took a long time to run through its start-up cycle.

I let it start up (it pulls about 4 amps for those interested) and then when I shut it down, the total amp draw on the entire system went down to the expected .0-.1 level.

I have no idea what might have caused that, its indeed strange.

I plugged into shore power and will leave it overnight for a good long soak. I want to reset all the baselines on the Xantrex monitor to see what kind of results I get.

I will then take a look at that separator. I couldn't believe how hot it stays long after being plugged in.

Thanks and more to follow
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:30 PM   #9
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

The radio switch controls a relay IIRC. It sounds like you're firing up an additional amplifier or two. I had SMB put a switch on my sub-amp. It's too much when using my surround sound but the stereo primary-amp still pulls more than the stereo itself. Each owners stereo system is specific so it's hard to say what is normal. Mine with the sub-amp off pulls about 2A at a normal volume level. YMMV.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: Help Isolating an Electrical Gremlin

We have one amp that powers the sub and the other channels. The idea of a switch on that amp to limit the draw in times when we are just sitting around is a good idea.
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