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03-03-2010, 03:13 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 638
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Quadvan Death Wobble
My 2005 RB V10 with a 2008 F350 4wd front axel (coil spring) has developed a serious wobble around 40-50 mph when brakes are applied. The axel has 20k on it. Mostly highway...maybe 100 miles off road.
I had it checked and aligned 2500 miles go. No excessive wear was noted and the wobble seemed to have been corrected.
It has reappeared in the last 1000 miles and is much more severe now.
I just took it to another alignment shop. The brakes are fine ...no warped rotors but the mechanic says the ball joints are shot as well as the track bar joint.
I'm suspicious.
John at Quadvan says it is almost always a case of improper alignment in the absence of excessive wear. Can ball joints wear out in 20k?
The alignment shop is the best one in town according to my regular mechanic.
Any thoughts?
__________________
Chris/Ruth
2016 MBZ Sprinter 144" 4wd.
DIY
07 BMW 525xi wagon
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03-03-2010, 04:34 PM
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#2
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Site Team
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Southern New Mexico
Posts: 10,179
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
Chris,
Are you sure it's when you apply the brakes, or could it be when you left off the gas? If it's the latter, it could be the driveshaft u-joints.
Herb
__________________
SMB-less as of 02/04/2012. Our savings account is richer, but our adventures are poorer.
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03-03-2010, 04:44 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Washington - Ridgefield
Posts: 4,728
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
I had a loose track bar and it caused Death Wobble. Until you experience it, you can't believe how bad it can get!
Any part of the steering/suspension can cause it. As long as there is a little freeplay, then the wheels can turn to the end of the freeplay and that will cause the wheels to rapidly go to the other end of the freeplay. Back and forth until either you crash, slow down enough or somehow stop it. Sometimes, for me, turning the wheel would cause the wobble to stop - but I'd better want to make that turn.
I found mine by laying under the van while someone turned the wheel strongly right and left. Finally I saw the track bar moving, not the wheels.
But, it could be balljoints. I've heard of them being replaced at 30,000 miles. Or the track bar, or a steering box that has play or is loose on the frame, or out of balance wheels or something else.
Good luck,
Mike
__________________
Alaska to Key West, Labrador and more
Prostate cancer survivor. See Thread Prostate cancer and Sportsmobiles
2015 VW GTI 2020 Fiat 124 Spider
2012 E250 Hitop camper
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03-03-2010, 05:57 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 638
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
Thanks...It definately happens with braking rather than just taking my foot off the gas. It has also happened when I hit uneven pavement.
I forgot to mention it only happens between 40 and 50 mph. Braking into a left hand turn seems to be worse than a right hand turn.
There is some up and down play in the ball joints..maybe a 1/16" when a 6ft bar is used to pry the suspended wheel up and down.
The track bar joint also has about the same amount of play.
I found out the alignment guy is prone to exaggerate if he doesn't want to work on your vehicle.
All he could do was tell me what crap the Ford axel was, poor design, blah blah blah. He also didn't like the Quadvan lower coil spring mount. Said it would prevent him from pressing out the track bar ball joint. I have yet to talk with John at Quadvan. I'll go to another alignment shop for a 3rd opinion on how badly worn the ball joints are.
I appreciate any and all input.
__________________
Chris/Ruth
2016 MBZ Sprinter 144" 4wd.
DIY
07 BMW 525xi wagon
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03-03-2010, 06:41 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 475
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
I had a pretty scary wobble under heavy braking until my ball joints were replaced last week. My problem was not that the ball joints were loose, but they were too tight. According to the mechanic, it was due to improper installation. If you have noticeable play, even slight, in the ball joints, this is probably not your issue. New ball joints solved it for me, though.
__________________
2002 E350 EB - Voyager top - 7.3 - Quigley 4WD
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03-05-2010, 06:58 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greenwich Village, NYC
Posts: 568
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
Christopher, any luck? What happened?
Paul
__________________
2009 E350 5.4 Quadvan Homebrew
One day at a time
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03-05-2010, 10:44 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 638
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
John at Quadvan is convinced it's an alignment issue. He pointed me to Ford's TSB 07-10-10. It clearly describes the issue and the potential causes and fixes.
I located another shop in town that will manually adjust the alignment to the specs indicated in the TSB. Shops that use a laser alignment set up apparently cannot overide the machine's presets based on year, make and model.
I'll let you know how this works out. If realignment fails to correct the problem then excessive wear of the track bar joints and or Ball joints is the cause.
__________________
Chris/Ruth
2016 MBZ Sprinter 144" 4wd.
DIY
07 BMW 525xi wagon
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03-05-2010, 12:45 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Greenwich Village, NYC
Posts: 568
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
Yes, please keep us posted. Those of us with Quadvans, such as I, are curious, although I guess Quigleys can get it, too.
Best of luck. And it really does help others when we post our problems, process and eventual solutions on boards like this. Thanks.
Paul
__________________
2009 E350 5.4 Quadvan Homebrew
One day at a time
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03-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 638
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
My research has confirmed what most F series 4wd truck owners already know...this sterring wheel oscillation issue is wide spread and has been known to Ford for a long time. Google FORD TSB 07-10-10 and give it a read. I see you live in the "Village". I visit friends--ex Manhattanites who moved to Jersey City, once a year. We always pop out of the Path train at Christopher Street for our dinners in the Villiage..love it.
__________________
Chris/Ruth
2016 MBZ Sprinter 144" 4wd.
DIY
07 BMW 525xi wagon
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03-15-2010, 11:56 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 638
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Re: Quadvan Death Wobble
I believe my problem is solved. I took the van to another (3rd) alignment shop armed with the Ford TSB and the first shop's alignment stats which I now think started the problem. I also had the correct caster settings from John at Quadvan. Both his and Fords TSB settings are basically the same. Most critical is the caster setting. It needs to be 1.5 to 2 degrees on the right side and no more than 2 degrees on the left.
The shop first confirmed my ball joints were NOT worn out contrary to what the 2nd shop told me. They also corrected the misadjusted toe and camber. $80.00/parts.....$180/labor.
Feels much better on the road and I can't get the wobble to start.
The TSB is #07-10-10. I suggest if you have the Ford F250/350 4wd front end you download the TSB and read it and stick it in your glove box.
Thanks to John at Quadvan for spending an hour on the phone with me and to the forum member's suggestions.
__________________
Chris/Ruth
2016 MBZ Sprinter 144" 4wd.
DIY
07 BMW 525xi wagon
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