UPDATE: CCV Hard Top Upper Bed Failure and Ideas for Rebuild

KTMRIDER · 09-10-2011, 01:25 AM

Thought I would start a dedicated post on my Colorado Camper Van uppper bed failure and try and generate some ideas on how to rebuild my top bed. Some may have read a bit about my upper bed failure mentioned in these posts:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7752

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7733

First lets get this one answered:
"KTMRider this has to be the very first time I've read here anything less than positive about Derek and CCV's. Have you addressed the crashing bunk issue with him and if so what was the result?"

- I have not spoken to any other customers of Derek's. Yes I have exhanged a few emails with him and called him twice to try and talk in "person". Left two messages with no call back. By email he had stated he would probably pay to have the pins replaced by someone local to me if I provided the receipt. He is only waiting on receipt for pins, which I won't be replacing. I am in So Cal and he is in Colorado and to his credit I do think he would try and fix it if I could just drive it over, and maybe fix other stuff too.

- Personally, I don't want him touching the interior of my van again, just my choice based on my overall experience even though I really like Derek as a person. I will say I think I was probably his first real interior build and it was a new experience for both of us to figure out an interior. I know we each have our own views and I just want to get my van to the point where I don't have to worry about things. Had enough of that and I will leave it at that...

- The bed was supposed to be designed to sleep two adults. I have slept on it myself two times in the past. It stowed in the front of the van against the storage cabinet and held in place by a silly tie down. When deployed you could slide it a bit to the rear and squeeze into the front space to open the cabinet. Akward but it worked. The coolest part of the bed was that it was lower than other beds giving a little extra room to move around. I couldn't sit all the way up but for sleeping it was fine.

- Some of you said just reuse it with some mods but I will not be using that upper bed again. The scope of what could have happened to my family members is probably not realized unless you were there. I couldn't sleep in the future knowing of those risks. There has to be a better way. It is heavy, sharp, blocks the storage cabinet when stowed and makes it difficult for anyone sitting in the bench sent over about 5'10. When trying to fold it in it would stick and if you were not careful where you placed your shoulder the wood inserts could pull out of the screws, fun stuff. I did keep the cushions to transfer to the next option as they were just held on by velcro.

- Here are more photos. Again, it was a very creative design but sort of a pain overall. The four wheels per side rolled on the tracks mounted to the sides of the van. Yes they looked just like garage door tracks and wheels although I am not quite sure if that is exactly what they were. Derek can answer that if he wants.

Bed out

Underside of bed

Roller close-up

Roller on Bracket

Fallen bed

Bed out of van

- Not sure if the pins sheared or just pulled out from the brackets. I could see that happening from sliding along the tracks and/or vibrating from driving.

- So I am leaning towards a few removable sections similar to some of the other photos on the forum from folks with Voyager type tops. Only adding some sort of additional cross support when setup. Ideas on materials? Light, durable and strong but wood or something else? Possibly fabricating some kind of cross braces that dropped down to allow similar headroom as before?
Thanks
Eric
Edited to fix some spelling errors and add CCV to title and first line at the suggestion of another member for clarity.

jage · 09-10-2011, 08:06 AM

In the second up close of the back roller you can see the roller pin looks like it's interference fit into the plate (pin in a hole) I don't see what I would expect, which is a big glob of weld on the back so they were probably pressed in, or possibly a stock piece meant to support a garage door.

In the front of the failed rollers you can see the pin is reduced from the total diameter of the roller, and has a black back, so the pin did not shear, it popped out of the hole. Supporting half the weigh of a person at the bed end isn't enough, there is the added force of the "huck" as you pull yourself to the level of the bed.

Those plates and wheels look like the kicker for a garage door- at the top to push the top edge forward on the curve at the very end of closing. You can probably find some in your own garage.

Re-design I see a couple of things:
- Attaching to the van wall
- Bed span itself
- Adding drop without allowing spread (if the bed is supported directly by the wall, the wall provides lateral support as well)
- Ease of use/storage with drop

The last one is where you get fancy, complicated and possibly expensive. The first two could be covered by some heavy gauge L channel and rated plywood, but you don't get the headroom, although you still have to attach the L to the wall I guess.

Toolman · 09-12-2011, 10:34 PM

it looks like a coffin.

Ford_6L_E350 · 09-13-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jage

In the second up close of the back roller you can see the roller pin looks like it's interference fit into the plate (pin in a hole) I don't see what I would expect, which is a big glob of weld on the back so they were probably pressed in, or possibly a stock piece meant to support a garage door.

I agree with that. You have the parts, did the roller pull out of the plate?

If the design worked for you other than the failure, I would use the same parts and securely weld the rollers to the plates.

If you really want to redesign it, I'm going to be of little help.

Mike

carringb · 09-13-2011, 10:51 AM

I think that was a sweet setup. Something I would do for sure. I see no issues i the design. I do see a purchased part that did not hold what it was intended to. Welcome to China company QA/QC. Pretty sure its a roller assembly for a commercial truck/trailer roll up door.

If it were me, I would reinstall a higher quality door roller, and add some clip-on nylon safety straps.

rockbender · 09-13-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carringb

I think that was a sweet setup. Something I would do for sure. .....
I would reinstall a higher quality door roller, and add some clip-on nylon safety straps.

x2

jage · 09-13-2011, 01:57 PM

The clip on, or any kind of safety strap is a great idea. Of course it has to be stronger than the hardware to catch the bed in a failure...

If you're going to keep it the same I'd at least double the roller on the end- the end takes the full weight when getting in and out of the bed, plus the force of pulling oneself up, or landing so the end should be the strongest piece by far. I'd also weld those roller wheels in- a truck door or garage is not meant to take anything but the weight of the door, so I don't think it's a good assumption they're designed or able to take the weight of the bed + a person.

Still I don't think Eric liked how it worked enough to rebuild.

carringb · 09-13-2011, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jage

I'd also weld those roller wheels in- a truck door or garage is not meant to take anything but the weight of the door, so I don't think it's a good assumption they're designed or able to take the weight of the bed + a person.

They are supposed to be strong enough to prevent forced entry. The ones that failed probably would not hold if a big dude came a running and put his shoulder into the roll-up door.

That said... if I used something like that, I probably would have done some load testing first. But I suspect early fatigue was a factor, due to low quality materials in roller assembly.

KTMRIDER · 09-13-2011, 11:39 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. Yes, looking closer it does look like the welds may have broken between the pins and the brackets they went in. It wouldn't suprise me one bit as my motorcyle rack builder did a double take at the so called weld job on my battery rack uner the van. He couldn't believe it and crawled under there to add some better welds for safety saying the other welds had no penetration. If you look at the one photo of the bed on the ground you can see a small blob of weld of one still attached. Plus the ends of the rollers are still black which my guess now is the same paint as on the bracket. I had thought that was the color of the sheared pin at first.

Seems many of you really like the bed idea overall so I will rethink my options of retaining it but making it safe, with backup safety on top of that. Still not sure. As I mentioned it was very creative and cool, pretty functional overal as a bed but did have its flaws and was sharp and dangerous. I still have the contraption on the side of the house so I am going to take it over to UJOINT's (Chris) buddy who is a fabricator and lives near me. I was over checking out his van build a few weeks ago and he also mentioned just making the bed better and putting some safety measures in place. I like the idea of the netting for a backup. If there is a way to have it secure with backup in both the up and down positions I might be open to it.
Eric

sledmods · 09-14-2011, 12:39 AM

I was the CCV project that followed your van. I didn't do the interior of my van and just had Derek do the pop top.

I would reuse the bed but remove all the rollers and have the bed "hook" in rather than roll into place.