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Old 09-29-2015, 02:55 AM   #1
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Vehicle fire prevention

I recently did an unplanned drive, from 6am to past midnight, to pick up a friend, who's RV had suffered a fire. Lots of time to think about everything that could have led to his particular fire, and everything that can lead to a fire in a vehicle in general. Since he has to deal with his insurance on this, I won't speculate publicly about his particular case (though I am, from the perspective of learning as much as I can from a failure, super curious what the professionals will conclude -- all my theories have a couple more steps in them than think I could ever prove).

The RV was considerably older than my van, but professionally maintained. While it's newer, it's not like my van just rolled out of the showroom.

This has me wondering, what we should be doing (or, also, what are folks doing) to minimize the chance of going up in flames? Certainly old (soft) fuel lines need to be re-done on a regular basis, but how often? Bearings need to be inspected regularly to make sure that nothing is seizing and about to get really hot. But which parts, and again, at what interval?

Anything else? -- I just noticed a crack in my plastic 5 gallon fuel jug that I've been known to strap to the roof rack. With that, it's out of service, but what if I hadn't just caught that? Should I be inspecting some of these things on a schedule? -- Probably, I just don't have this schedule put together at the moment, and a while specific items may have a schedule, it would be much more useful to have a schedule to run through that you check against items you might have to then check on.

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Old 09-29-2015, 07:36 AM   #2
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

My SMB fire was an electrical fire started by a short in the factory van wiring harness - the wire for the dome lights and the back door switch. It had been blowing the fuse from time to time (same fuse as the radio) and caught on fire while we were camped and out of the van.

http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/vie...p?f=14&t=12449
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:05 AM   #3
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

Most RV fires I've seen, and I've seen several, were older propane appliance related. My Dad had a relatively new RV burn to the ground on the side of the interstate, propane fridge started it. I have a trailer with a propane fridge these days, but I don't like propane fridges. There's just something about a constant flame on a bouncing vehicle that spooks me. Old fuel lines on anything are a concern of course too, as is wiring, but it's the propane system on most older RVs that I think is to blame. Statistically not very many RVs ever have a problem, even though it is inherently dangerous IMO to combine the risks of home/propane appliances in a confined space with a jostling, hot combustion engine vehicle in the first place. Will it stop me? Not a chance, but being alert and taking every precaution is important with this lifestyle. I drive commercial vehicles and am in the habit of checking my fire extinguisher as a routine pre-trip. Anyone with an RV and no fire extinguisher is literally playing with fire.
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Old 09-30-2015, 01:33 AM   #4
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

I suppose I'm most worried about all the aftermarket wiring. Most of mine is left over from the news van conversion, and while it's old, is actually very high quality work. Some things I've done, and while I've been careful and so far apparently fused everything properly, I have had a couple things fail. Mostly after spending a long time on a rough road or trail.

Pulling the walls down at the end of every trail is hardly practical. Perhaps some sort of a battery shut-off that I could pull before I go to sleep?

Clearly I should add a smoke detector to my CO detector, not sure why I didn't get a combo unit.

I don't have any propane other than a small cylinder that I carry in an externally vented compartment (my vacant generator box). It's not permanently connected to anything. So that's a concern I've chosen to avoid.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:02 AM   #5
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

Just buy a battery operated smoke detector and mount it somewhere...........$10 at Home Depot or Lowes......

I haven't seen a combo smoke/CO......I ended up buying a combo Propane/CO unit and stuck a vanilla smoke detector to the ceiling.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:09 AM   #6
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

I don't think a combo detector is that great of an idea. Reason is, the smoke detector should be on the ceiling (smoke rises), while a CO detector is better at a mid-height (often specified as head height when sleeping). CO is more neutral in terms of rising/falling. A combo propane/smoke detector would be even worse (not that you suggested that) because propane sinks while smoke rises - totally different locations called for there.

In boats it's common to have a main battery switch (in fact, ABYC, who publish standards/guidelines) call for it. This is often something like a Blue Sea M-Series or E-Series switch. I put one in my rig, although I don't shut it off every night. I don't like leaving things energized when storing the rig though. It's also something that can be shut off instantly/easily if there is a problem.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:43 AM   #7
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

Electrical fire from aftermarket wiring (Sportsmobile) here, too....

My Fire Extinguisher Works!



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Old 10-01-2015, 12:03 AM   #8
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

Overall I'm thrilled to see the stories here that had a happy ending. Good job being on your toes, noticing in time, and then remembering enough of the right things in the heat of the moment!!

I do carry an extinguisher in the van as well, and will add a smoke detector. Edit: trying to order one proved challenging. To others in CA: You need to get one with a 10 year battery. Cost seems fine, or even good, if you consider 3-5 9V batteries over a decade, just took me a moment to figure out what I had to change.

The electrical fires made me remember that my house battery is actually connected through some large (50A and 30A IIRC) breakers, as is the wiring from the alternator. This is all part of what ENG did when they built it for news-van duty.

Now, breakers can fail as well, particular when something is trying to weld like in Geoffff's case.
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:33 AM   #9
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

I need to verify, but I'm not sure there is a breaker on that cable. Shouldn't Sportsmobile have put one? Perhaps I should add one.

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Old 10-01-2015, 11:57 AM   #10
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Re: Vehicle fire prevention

When it comes to OCP (overcurrent protection), I have noticed that a lot of installations are somewhat lacking (not just SMB). If you look at it with a few principles in mind, you can decide for yourself where it needs beefed up or changed.

(If this is already old news to you, or you are a pro [I'm not] don't take offense.)

Anyway, overcurrent protection is sized to protect the wire that it's protecting. Each cable size and temperature rating has an allowable amperage for its location. You size for that (or better). OCP (fuses or breakers) is placed as close as possible to any power source. The other thing to consider is AIC rating (ampere interrupt capacity). This is independent of the size of the fuse/breaker, and is more about the design of the particular breaker/holder and how much current it can withstand before it destructs (never mind the fuse or breaker inside it). With just one battery, or two smaller ones, a 10,000 AIC rating is probably fine (but you can always check/calculate). This means a Blue Sea MRBF is fine, and conveniently it mounts right on the terminal. With a larger bank, that's not enough. For my three Group 31's, for example, I had to go to a Class T fuse (20,000 AIC). This is just for the first fuse downstream of the battery bank.

So anyway, a couple of examples:

1) A #2 positive cable connecting the start battery to the house battery. The cable is rated at 105º C and passes through the engine compartment. I look up the specs and see that a 10,000 AIC rating is fine for the start battery, and that a single (non-bundled) #2 cable rated at 105ºC and passing through an engine space can be fused up to 178.5 amps. I decide to use a Blue Sea MRBF, and because I don't need the ultimate amp capacity (in my example), and because I already have 150 amp fuses on other things (so I have fewer spares to stock), I go with a 150 amp fuse on the start battery.

Since this cable can also be powered from the other end (house bank), I also need to fuse that end. On that end let's say that I have three Group 31 batteries. These need more than 10,000 AIC, so I don't go with an MBRF, but instead a Class T fuse. The 178.5 amps still holds true. So I choose a 150 amp Class T fuse.

2) A #2 cable comes off the house positive post and leads to a bus bar. A number of loads come off that bus bar, one of them being the DC fuse block (main DC house loads).

In this case, I would actually run this wire to the Class T fuse first, then to the bus bar. So here I don't need an additional fuse until I get to the smaller wires that come off the DC fuse block, because there is no reduction in wire size from the wire that is protected by the Class T fuse from the battery to the bus bar.

3) But what if I had a #6 wire from the bus bar to the DC fuse block? Then I could see that a #6 wire, rated at 105ºC, not bundled, and not in an engine room can be fused up to 120 amps. The 150 amp fuse upstream will thus not protect it, so I need additional fusing as the wire comes off the bus bar. I don't need a fuse at the DC fuse block end of this wire, because no power is coming "upstream" from the DC fuse block. Each small wire going from the fuse block to loads will be fused though (wires get smaller, they need new OCP).

in reality I'd do more planning and there would be a few more factors to consider (fuse vs. breaker; maybe I need larger connecting wire so i can self-jump-start; I want a main battery switch, etc.)

I noticed in my SMB (and a couple I looked at) that the DC fuse block had a fuse "protecting" the wire between the house battery and the fuse block --- but it was placed just as said wire entered the fuse block (and not on the other end). To me this is backwards, as that wire then isn't protected from the power source (battery). Instead this breaker was protecting the last 2" of the wire as it went to the smaller fuses. I would place the OCP at the other end of the wire, where the power originates (battery).

Again, I'm no pro, but this is how I think about it.
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