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I have read a lot of garbage from naysayers about bent I-beam lifts and felt I should comment since I have experience with a vehicle which was lifted via bent beams. I have read comments that bent I-beams don't provide proper suspension geometry, are dangerous as it says "do not heat or bend" right on the beams, and that drop down brackets are the way to go for lifting an I-beam suspended vehicle. This couldn't be further from the truth. I am willing to bet the people making these comments have no clue what they are talking about, or they have experienced a poor execution of a bent beam lifted vehicle.

I have owned many different types of lifted vehicles. One of them was a 1992 Ford Ranger which had I-beam front suspension. I bought it with a high end drop bracket lift on it and quickly realized the lift was good in theory but not so good in real use. It was a mess, tracked poorly, was a PIA to drive as it was hard work keeping it in the lane, and it constantly needed to be aligned even without any hard driving or off roading. The tires on the front would wear horribly and require constant rotation to make them last any length of time. I was so tired of the drop down lift I was ready to try anything, including taking the lift off and making the truck stock again (even though I did not want to drive a stock 1992 Ranger).

I then found a local SoCal shop (Fabtech, before they were big and commercialized) who would lift I-beam vehicles by bending the beams. I went and drove one of their shop trucks which was a F150 with bent beams and I couldn't believe how well it drove, even though it was obvious this truck had been beat off road. I left my truck with them to have them take off the drop down brackets and do a bent beam lift (yes "do not heat or bend" was cast into the beams in 1992). That truck is still one of my favorite vehicles (wish I never sold it). From that point on I drove that truck hard on and off road and it never had any more alignment issues. The driveability and tire wear problems were gone. The truck tracked straight and was a pleasure to drive (unlike many lifted vehicles), like it was designed that way from the factory. The friend who bought the truck off of me is still driving it today and it has over 250K miles on it, still with the same bent beams.

Bent beams is a great way to lift these vans if one doesn't need a 4WD conversion. I happen to live local to Camburg so I see a bunch of vans they have lifted rolling around. They all look great. I can't wait until my toy fund can handle the lift for my passenger van.

So you do race stuff?
It seems like bending the beams (ignoring the manufacturer's warnings cast directly on the part) would put you in a bad spot legally should an accident occur, liability wise. Wouldnt it also affect geometry being its mounting in the stock location, but bent to allow alignment for lift, thus narrowing the track of the front of the vehicle? They are just being bent, not lengthened, correct? And narrowing the track width while raising the center of gravity would decrease the vehicle stability by normal laws of physics, correct? Having been in the industry for 15 years, and having always heard the general rule of thumb to widen the track 1.5" for every 1" raised to keep your COG it seems counterproductive to raise AND narrow your vehicle and expect it to perform better. Just sayin'

Yes I do race stuff




The way we bend the beams does not narrow the track very much at all around 1/2" per side. But with wider tires and wider off-set wheels you get the extra width over stock. As for the warning on the beams the warning is there because the "Old Fashion" way of aligning the ford I beam vehicles was to bend the beams. This was because there were no camber caster adjusters in the ball joints Fords use to have king pins with ZERO adjust-ability. Now in the Camburg Bent beam kits we use larger aftermarket 2 piece cam eccentrics that will adjust out more than 1/2 the amount the beams would need to get bent if we used the factory cams. Now yes the drop down brackets do keep the track width to factory spec but they also raise the roll center as they move the pivots 6" lower then where they are with a bent beam kit. Also with your logic the track width would still be narrow over the amount of lift. When raising any vehicle you do raise the center of gravity.
As for geometry bent beams are as stock as it gets as the beams still pivot in the FACTORY location. We do install a longer set of radius arms that will still mount in the factory mounts holes and pivot at the same height as the stock ones but like I said they are longer. Why longer? Well the suspension because of the added wheel travel will go through much more caster change there with a longer radius arm you get less change over travel.

Now you say you have been in the off-road industry for over 15 years. Where are you from and where do you work?

Here is a video of what we build and design...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsA33d3w4zU

I grew up in California, worked for 4 Wheel Parts, Drivetrain Direct, All Pro Off Road and recently moved to VA working for IPOR Inc (Iron Pig Off Road and 4x4 Connection, different divisions, same company). I know several people in the industry that have been bending beams, and that have never had any problems - but the fact that it narrows track width is an issue that was dealt with using different offsets and spacers generally that may not apply here. Your shop has always had a good reputation in the parts quality aspect, but its also been in the racing category and not so much the street category from the reports I have personally heard about. I personally have seen very few of your parts on the road with customers I have wheeled with on the trail and dealt with selling parts to in the shops I have run, so I'm just asking to gauge how you are doing it as respects the primarily street driven vehicles here. And can a customer supply a set of beams to you to bend and include the balance of the kit, or will you only do it if the van is physically there in your shop? Lets face it, there are full size vans in every junkyard that a good set of beams can be pulled for a few bucks and sent over, downing your own vehicle is not a real requirement because beams are so scarce that you have to send your own... That should make s marked difference in price and allow local install for those not in the SoCal area driving range.

I wish it was as easy as going to the local junk yard to get a set of beams. The fact is there are over 10 different part numbers for the I beams just in the last 8 years. There are mild changes in them from E-150, 250, and 350.
I can tell you from personal experience that bent beams handle better on and off-road than drop brackets. The on road is about 20% close to the same but the extra ground clearance and lower roll center off road is really where the bent beams shine. Now we recognize most people around the world who want our products can't just send us their beams so this is why we make drop brackets. Now you can take the word from the company who "CAN'T" bend beams saying there drop down brackets are better. Or you can take the word from the company that builds BOTH. This is up to you.

As for the Camburg suspension being used on road.. Well 4 Wheel Parts has been selling our products for a few years now as well as many other "Lift Shops". You need to remember our product is designed for the ultimate in PERFORMANCE not "looks" With our products the look comes from the function. Our products need to perform at the highest level on and off-road.

That statement is fundamentally incorrect.

The drop bracket maintain the stock roll center, it does not raise it, as the instant centers are in the exact same location as stock (as measured from the ground, as all kinematics should be). Bending the I-beams raises the FVSA (front view swing arm) instant centers, and therefore also raises the roll center.

For the rest of the audience... Why does the roll center matter?

The higher the roll center, the smaller the rolling the rolling moment is about the roll center. In other words, the higher roll center inherently resits roll, so that the springs (incl. sway bar) do not have to. In other words, assuming an identical spring setup, the vehicle with the higher roll center will exhibit less body roll.

Good, right? Well, not all the time. In both setups, the "non-rolling overturning moment" is the same, which means both will roll just as easy, but in an extreme case of "jacking" (such as with a roll center near or at the vehicle cG) the driver will get no warning that vehicle is about to flip. Every road vehicle sold in the US today has a roll center low enough to exhibit body body roll before rollover occurs.

Race trucks are different, mostly because the driver's are trained drive those trucks, and also when off-pavement there is rarely enough lateral traction to cause rollover even with high amounts of jacking present.

The M151 Jeep was notorious for unexpected rollovers, largely because it's IFS had a high roll center.

So in a nutshell... A raised roll center may not be bad, as long as the cG is also raised, and the driver understands the limitation of the vehicle, but may not be as on pavement in some situations.


Now... for my take on bending the I-beams.

I think this borders on irresponsible. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe Camburg heat treats the I-beams after bending? Without the additional step, the forged I-beams lose strength. Just because a Camburg van hasn't broken one yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. If I were to buy bent i-beams, I would sure like to the all the FEA and destructive testing analysis performed on their I-beams before I'd trust them on my vehicles.

You are right. I should have not used the words "roll center". I said that so the average guy would under stand what I was getting at.

In a nut shell when you use a drop bracket your mass is pivoting further above the roll center. This will cause more body roll because the vehicle has 1 been lifted and 2 the mass is now way higher than if it was in the factory location i.e. bent beams.


As for bending the beams. They are Cast not forged. There is no reason to heat treat them as they are not heat treated to begin with. They are basically molten metal poured into a mold then cooled in natural air when made. When we heat them up we are not heating them up to a temperature that would change the chemical or physical properties of the steel. We are heating them up to a temperature that makes it easier to bend them and we have a process in how we heat and cool them off.

Like I said I have driven both and we build both. The bent beams are the better way to go.

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were forged. I have far less concern over the bent arms now.

Is the part number cast on the arm?

Yes the part numbers are on the beams.

OK, so if someone found the same beam (by verifying part number) what would it cost to bend them and supply the balance of the kit?

So by the lack of response you wont do the exchange if the same beams are supplied verified by part number?

You may want to use the e-mail button rather than just posting here. If Jerry doesn't check here often, you may not get a response for a while.


Herb

The bent beam kit would cost $2995.00

Also in my signature is all my contact info :)

I appreciate it - thanks.