Hal The Van - Page 17

Nomadcat · 04-27-2010, 08:50 PM

WV, as always, I stand in awe of your design intrepidness, tool collection, and ingenuity.

I am hoping to spend more time designing, taking apart some of my temporary stuff, and re-building over the summer, but I am already out on the road and am traveling with the vehicle before I work on it any more.

I am actually in WV for the night tonight. I think I can hear your grinder in the distance.

Please keep the photos coming.

Best,

Paul

**WVvan** · 04-27-2010, 11:03 PM

Thanks Paul but you might have a different opinion after read this post.

I'll interrupt the sofa-bed build to report on my Bonehead Play of the Month.
Actually I hope this is my bonehead play of the entire build.
I mentioned previously about hooking up quick disconnects to one battery to power the actuators.

The one thing missing in this setup was a fuse. "Why Bother", I thought. I'll always be close at hand and will see any problems in time to disconnect the battery.

That was a Bonehead Move.

Last night I was testing out where to position the second actuator. It will raise the Back Platform.

I had quickly fabricated a square bracket for the piston end.

What I didn't realize was that the square nature of the bracket stopped the piston from retracting completely if it was positioned at an angle. So during testing the piston goes to the closed position and stops. I thought it had hit it's internal limit switch and just shut off like normal. Wrong-O.
The square bracket had stopped it from closing but the current was still flowing. This is where the fuse would have blown.

When I go to move the actuator a few minutes later the motor has gotten warm. A soon as I feel it I realize what has happened and kill the power but it's too late. The motor is toast. Now I'm ticked off for two reasons. One is that I've probably just shot $119.99. But what bothers me even more at his point is that this actuator is the last thing I've got to get right before the major work on the sofa-bed is done. The actuator company is out in Washington state and a new actuator will take at least a week to get here. I could overnight it but I hate paying that much for shipping.

It was too late to do anything about the first problem but I thought I had a solution to the second problem. I have a 18" actuator I was going to use for a TV lift and the motors look to be the same. I contacted Firgelli Automations this AM and they conformed that the motors were the same. They also told me they don't carry spare parts. So no new motor. I'll have to buy an whole new actuator.

I guess it's time to add "Firgelli Automations Actuator Repairman" to my resume.
What follows is instructions for swapping out a motor. WARNING: Firgelli don't provide any instructions.
This is just what I can up with.
Remove the three screws form the base of the unit.

Remove the base plate.

You will see three gears. carefully remove the three gears. They will just slide off. Be mindful of the washers on the ends of the gears.

Notice the three little hold down washers that keep the wires in place. Carefully remove them.

There are three wire connections covered with shrink tube.

Connection 1 is limit switches to motor.
Connection 2 is outside power to motor.
Connection 3 is outside power to limit switches.

Note that the black wire coming from the motor goes to connection 1 and the red wire goes to connection 2.

If you are just replacing the motor you'd only have to undo connections 1 and 2. I was hoping against hope that maybe the fault was else where so I unhooked all the connections then used a voltmeter to look for shorts or opens. Also provided 12 volts to just the motor. It's the motor all right.

Once you carefully cut away the shrink tube from the wires you'll find them just twisted together.

That was a lucky break since I didn't have to worry about cutting the wires to get them apart. Everything is so tight there is no wire to spare.

Remove the two screws that hold down the motor.

Repeat all these steps on the 18" actuator and remove it's motor.

Mount the new motor and join the wires. Be sure to get the colored wire to the correct connection. Cover the joints with shrink tubing then use a heat gun on the tubing.

Here all the wires have been joined and shrink tubed. The three hold down washers are in place.

Put the three gears back into place and before closing it up apply power to see if it works. It did.

Be mindful of the gasket when closing it up.

OK, that's all done.
Now to correct the original mistake.
I stopped at Advance auto on the way home today and bought these. An inline ATC fuse holder and spare fuses.

Add the in-line fuse holder to my little battery power setup. Better late than never.

On the bright side I also picked up this nifty fuse tester with the spare fuses.

It allows you to test if the fuse is blown without having to remove it from it's holder. I'm sure this will come in handy.

I have no idea if I'll be able to fix this bad motor. Won't know until I give it a try but I'll worry about that some other time.

We now return to our regularly scheduled sofa-bed build already in progress.

**WVvan** · 04-28-2010, 09:35 PM

Sofa-bed continued:

I've finished work on the drive mechanism mounted to the Center Support. Before I can attach the Center Support to the Kick Board I have to make a cut to the center "corner" block on the Kick Board. This will make room for the base end of the 12" actuator. If I hadn't glued that block into place this would have been easier.

Put the bits together.

Cut the 3" x 74" Middle Brace from 19/32" plywood. Glue and screw 1-1/2" corner blocks to the ends of the Middle Brace. Then use clamps to position the Middle Brace to the back side of of both end pieces.
Then drill holes for and add two 5/16" bolts on each end.

Glue and screw a corner block in the middle of the Middle Brace to support the Center Support. This was a MISTAKE. Just like the corresponding block on the front Kick Board I should have just screwed it into place in case I need to make adjustments to the position of the Center Support.

Put the Seat Platform into place and finish adding the metal angles on the top edge of the platform to make a kind of slider.

Hook up the actuator and use it to drive the Seat Platform back and forth.

I found that I couldn't stop the platform from jamming as it moved back and forth. I realized I had made two design failures.
My attempts at sliders just had too much friction even with several modifications I made after this first trial. I'll attempt to fix this by using heavy duty drawer sliders.
The second problem was I hadn't provided a way to keep the drive mechanism on center. I knew this when I first built it but I assumed the Seat Platform would keep it centered. It didn't and this just added to the jamming problem. I'll have to make some additions to the drive mechanism.

Onward and upward.

continued -

**WVvan** · 04-29-2010, 04:10 PM

Sofa-bed continued:

Need to replace my home made sliders with heavy duty drawer hardware. I'm using Schock Metal 037 Series, 350mm (13.78") full extension drawer slide. $25.61 a pair.
Schock Metal web site

They are rated at 209lbs. Since the Seat Platform is fully supported in the center I believe that they should be sufficient.

I'm going to make some modifications to the slides. To make it easier for me to explain I've taken a diagram from the company website and given names to the three main parts of the drawer slide.

In my build the Base Plate will be attached to one of the end pieces. The Inner Slider will be attached, via a metal angle, to the Seat Platform. The reason I wanted to make modifications was because I wanted to increase the number, size and position of the mounting hardware. I'm not an engineer and have no way to validate my changes. I just felt the hardware should be a bit sturdier.

Start with the base plate. It comes with four mounting holes. More apt to say two pairs of mounting holes since they are so close together.

This metal dimple in the Middle Slider restricts the size of the attachment hardware.

The head of a #10 machine screw is the largest that will pass under the dimple.

I want to increase this from a #10 (0.19" diameter) screw to a 1/4" bolt.

To do this I first need to remove the "stop" at the end of the Base Plate.

Flip the slide over. The "stop" is hold on by a rivet. Drill down on the rivet head to weaken it.

Then knock it out with a punch.

With the "stop" out of the way you can now over-extend the Middle Slider. I've over-extended the slider and placed the dimple on top of one jaw of my bench vise.

Using the vice like an anvil I pound down the dimple with hammer and punch until it's as flat as I can make it. Now the head's of a 1/4" bolt will pass beneath it.

Now to add a couple more mounting holes. Between the Base Plate and the Middle Slider is a ball-bearing slider. There is a separate ball-bearing slider between the Middle and Inner Sliders. The 1/4" bolt won't fit under this ball-bearing slider. See where the ball-bearing slider sits when the slide is in the closed position and mark that spot. The bolt must be mounted to the left of this position.

Use that mark as a guide for where to drill a hole along the center-line of the Base Plate. Also add a mark for a hole near the left end.

The ball bearing tracks are greased and when you start drilling the Base Plate the filings can get into the tracks and cause problems. I found this works to keep the filings out. Get a round magnet with a hole in the center. Then center the magnet over where you're going to add a hole. Slowly drill through the center of the magnet.

All the filings stick to either the drill bit or the magnet.

Wipe the filings off the drill bit. To get the filings off the magnet just push a small screw through the hole in the magnet. Most all the filings will jump from the magnet to the screw. Then just tap the screw on the inside of the trash can and the filings fall right off. Do that a couple times and the magnet will be mostly clear. The few filings left on the magnet can be easily dusted off into the trash. Don't tap the magnet to loosen filings. Banging on a magnet weakens it.

The Base Plate can now be mounted with four 1/4" bolts.

Next up the Inner Slider.

continued -

jage · 04-29-2010, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVvan

What a trick!

AndrewST · 04-29-2010, 09:23 PM

Am amased by the detailled report you always give, a pleasure to read and look, thanks.

**WVvan** · 04-30-2010, 12:48 PM

Thanks guys,
I appreciate the feedback.
Not only is the magnet useful but iron filings and magnets are just as much fun as when you were a kid.

Sofa-bed continued:

Here is the Inner Slider. It has four mounting holes but two are so close together I'll just consider it as having three mounting points. I want to increase that to five.

Just like with the Base Plate, there is a "stop" that dictates the size of a screw that can be used with the Inner Slider. The largest screw that the unmodified slide will allow is a #6. I want to increase that at least to a #10 screw.
For comparison here are (from L to R) #6 (0.13"), #8 (0.16") , #10 (0.19") machine screws and a 1/4" (0.25") bolt.

The stop is located on the Middle Slider.
Here you can see the stop and how it won't clear the head of a #10 screw on the Inner Slider.

To modify the slide, drill out the rivet holding the stop in place just like I did with the Base Plate.

Warning: After you remove the stop from the Middle Slider, the next time you move the Inner Slider this is what's going to happen.

The ball-bearing slider is going to pop out from between the Middle and Inner Slider. That is after all what the "stop" was meant to stop from happening. Even being as careful as I could, one of the ball bearing took off and was last seen heading for a new life under the washing machine.

To fix this situation take a #6 screw and with a hacksaw, shorten it to about .3".
MISTAKE: In this picture I'm not doing this correctly. If you are going to saw off part of a machine screw or bolt always thread on a nut so it's between the head and the where you're making your cut. Then after you're done cutting, unscrew the nut all the way off. The nut moving through the just cut threads will sometimes help in knocking off burrs and correcting misalignment in the threads.

Sometimes a little filing is needed to correct thread ends.

Take some needlenose pliers and insert the shortened #6 screw into the stop hole.

Screw on and tighten down a nut. I should have put some locktite on the screw. (Shout-out to wanderer351

) I'll have to go back and fix that.

Use the hacksaw to remove any protruding threads.

The new stop still restrains the ball-bearing slider but allows a #10 screw head to pass by it.

Use the magnet to catch the filings and drill two more holes in the Inner Slider.

That gives me the five mounting points.

continued -

**WVvan** · 05-01-2010, 10:38 PM

Sofa-bed continued:

With the modifications on the slides done I have to drill holes in the metal angles. The angles will be screwed to the slides and the Seat Platform will rest on and be bolted to the angle.

The metal angle is 2" high/wide and made of aluminum. Clamp the angle to the Inner Slider.

Since the angle is aluminum the magnet trick won't work for these drill holes. I made sure to keep the aluminum filings way from all the ball-bearings as I drilled.

After drilling the five holes don't let the Inner Slider retract into the Middle Slider until you've brushed it off and gave it a right good knocking on the table. Some missed shavings might still fall out.

Drill the holes for then bolt one of the slides to the end piece.

To mount the bolt through the hole closest to the edge you have to line up this square hole on the Middle Slider over the bolt hole.

With the slide mounted, next up is to mount the metal angle to the Inner Slider.
Start with the inner most screw hole. To get the screw through this hole you'll have to line up the same square hole in the Middle Slider that was used to mount the last bolt.

Mount the screw from underneath. There is just enough room to get this screw through and tightened.

The other four screws are easier to mount.

This angle will provide the support for the Seat Platform while the sofa-bed is in the bed position. I need to provide another angle for the support of the Back Platform while in the bed position.

I have to notch this angle so the seat angle will fit next to it when the Seat Platform is in the seat position.

Mount the second angle.

Here is how the two angles fit together.

Repeat all the above steps on the other end piece.

While I was working on the end pieces I was under direct supervision.

Everybody's a critic.

continued -

**WVvan** · 05-03-2010, 12:13 PM

Sofa-bed continued:

I've fixed the first design problem by replacing my home-made slides with drawer hardware. Now to tackle the other issue with the drive mechanism.

The drive mechanism can move off of center as the picture shows. This can cause the Seat Platform to jam at an angle.

Bolt two different angled pieces together so they look something like a backwards "Z".

Attach the backwards "Z" to the Center Support so it acts as a guide for the bottom edge of the "L" bracket. The "Z" will keep the "L" bracket, and the drive mechanism, from swinging off center.

The "Z angle is installed along the length of the "L" bracket travel.

There is not enough of the "L" bracket under the "Z" angle for me to be totally happy with this design. I'll revisit it in the future.

Funny thing. Just in typing up this posting I've come up with a similar but better plan. That will have to be in a different posting since I haven't tried it yet.

continued -

Zaskoda · 05-03-2010, 12:19 PM

Inspection kitteh sez, "you're doing it wrong!"