Hal The Van - Page 25

Nomadcat · 09-13-2010, 09:56 AM

I was thinking of getting a Propex and trying to do the whole thing myself, but I am wondering whether it would be better to find a professional installer. I have never worked with propane.

I'd have to install a tank, which is not a huge deal, then run the hoses and ducts, then wire in the electrical.

All the Propex guys seem to only deal with VWs, but I like the size and form factor of those units.

**WVvan** · 09-13-2010, 10:45 AM

I looked at the Propex but there was no way I'd try a DIY propane install. I'd have to farm it out. The Webasto I think I can handle (fingers-crossed).

**WVvan** · 09-14-2010, 02:41 PM

Heater Fuel Tank continued:

I need to open up the rocker panel to see what's inside. The space between the two underfloor supports looks like a likely spot.

Stand up a tape measure and align it with the spot while under the van then get out from under and look at the side of the van. Imagine what it would look like with the fuel inlet above the tape measure. Be sure to like the location.

Here's the tools I'll be using. Goggles are most important since you'll be laying on your back drilling and cutting above your head. Way too easy for a piece of debris to get inside your eye without them.

I'll also be using a 1-1/2" ID rubber fuel hose made by Gates. Ignore the part number you can see since I accidentally ordered the wrong hose. The one you see in these pictures has a 90 degree bend. It should have been this one Gates - Angled Fuel Fill Hose, 45 degree Angle, 1-1/2" ID (24710) Currently around $20 with shipping.

I've since corrected my mistake. By the way if anyone needs a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose with a 90 degree bend, let me know. I'll make you a good deal.

Marking out the hole to cut was fairly easy. The hole will have to be large enough to allow my hand to fit around the hose to get inside the rocker panel to do work. Put the rubber fuel hose to the side of the rocker panel then move my hand around it. Mark out a square.

Will make the cuts with my saber saw. But first need a pilot hole. Make sure the hole will be larger than the saw blade.

Was able to make the complete cut with just the one pilot hole. I'll clean it up later.

Take a look inside the rocker panel with the help of my camera.
The view looking right toward the front of the van. The outside skin of the van is on the left. Above is the floor level. In front is the "B" pillar. No signs of damage.

The view to the left is another story.

That kind of damage is to be expected when the end of the rocker panel used to look like this.

Hopefully I've got that taken care of so it won't get any worse.

The view looking up. The outer skin is along the bottom of the picture.

Where the outside skin and the inside of the van meets it looks like there is a bead of some kind of foam insulation or sealant.

The upward gap continues for about a foot from the floor level.

The width of the gap between the corner of the floor level and the outer skin is around 1-3/4"

With these new measurements I can update the cut-away view drawing.

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**WVvan** · 09-14-2010, 09:30 PM

Heater Fuel Tank continued:

With the rocker panel now open do some test fittings using the fuel hose and fuel inlet.

Mistake 1: I should have covered the face of the fuel inlet with masking tape to prevent scratching it's nice shiny face. I didn't scratch it but I was lucky.

The 1-3/4" gap between the outer skin and the floor level allows the fuel inlet to be positioned higher than originally planned. Mounting the fuel inlet higher increases the slope of the hose towards the tank which will improve the flow when filling the tank. Don't mount it so high that the hose rubs against the floor edge.

Mark out a position for the fuel inlet then drill a small hole to carry this to the outside of the van.

Using the small hole, line up the fuel inlet on the outside of the van. Check look and fit.

I thought it looked better just a little bit lower. Drilled new centering hole.

Point Of No Return
I bought a 1-3/4" bimetal hole saw just for this project. I already had some general purpose hole saws but wanted a good clean cut. Use the new centering hole and start drilling.

Wonder if I'll ever use it again.

Use a curved file to take off the sharp edge of the hole.

The view through the hole into the undervan.

Test fit of the fuel inlet.

There's a problem. The inlet won't sit flat.

If you look closely at the back of the fuel inlet you'll see this very slight arc where the tube and plate back meet. The 1-3/4" matches the tube diameter but is not enough to allow the arc to sit flat.

Need to increase the hole size but not by much. Use a rotary tool with grinding stone bit. Going freehand like this you have to be careful to keep the hole circular and not to start to make it oblong.

There isn't a lot of room between the screw holes and the edge of the hole so don't want to take off any more material than I have to. Just grind a little then do a test fit. Repeat until the inlet is flush.

By the end of the day my tool pile had really grown. One tool at a time.

Tiger had supervisor duty that day.

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**WVvan** · 09-15-2010, 06:32 PM

Heater Fuel Tank continued:

With the fuel inlet flush against the side of the van, drill holes for the mounting screws. The best way I could come up with making the fuel inlet "level" was to use the groove that runs along the side of the van as a guide. Measure from the middle point of the groove to the screw hole on each side.

Use sheet metal screws to hold the fuel inlet in place.

Here's the cutout size.

Test fit the fuel hose onto the fuel inlet. Use a T-Bevel to get the angle of the hose.

The hose is at an angle of 65 degrees

For a formed hose with a 45 degree angle and the tank fuel inlet at 30 degrees this measurement should be at 75 degrees. The hose will have to be raised to mate the fuel inlet to the fuel tank. Since the hose is flexible this won't be a problem, except for this.

The top of the hose is already close to the cutout edge. Don't want the hose to rub so I'll enlarge the cutout

Brought back the saber saw to enlarge the hole but there wasn't enough room to do a clean job of it. Finished up by using a hacksaw blade holder. Saw upward on the outer edges of the hole.

Use a hammer to beat the edge upward.

Here's the screws I'll use to attach the fuel inlet to the side of the van. They are Phillips head, stainless steel 10-24 machine screws. Picked them up at Lowe's.

Now that I know the screw holes are at the correct size, time for some rustproofing. Tape off the outside hole. Test fit so I'll know that the plate covers the rustproofed area.

I use a product called Rust Bullet.

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Nomadcat · 09-15-2010, 09:39 PM

were you working without supervision this whole time?

**WVvan** · 09-15-2010, 09:50 PM

Of course not. They don't think I can tie my shoes without their help.

Nomadcat · 09-16-2010, 07:31 AM

Okay, that's a relief. At least I know you won't mess anything up now.

My boss is about to accompany me to Whitey Ford to do a little work before I have to start working today. I'm actually starting to provision for a trip.

I am mildly obsessed with the Propex option and also want to see how much room I left myself over the wheel wells. I recall being slightly wasteful of space when I built that up so, if I want to subject myself to tearing some things down, I could be rewarded with enough space to install a propex.

This is probably not for the next month, but I was thinking of trying to find a tank somewhere, getting all the parts, doing most of the install, then taking it to an RV place to do final hookups.

Again, this is not immediate, but the first step is to see where I'd put it and vent it.

Okay, the boss is saying he has to go out. He must want to examine some fire hydrants for safety issues.

**WVvan** · 09-17-2010, 03:39 PM

Heater Fuel Tank continued:

With the rustproofing done, attach the fuel inlet.
To waterproof around the edge of the fuel inlet I'm using GE Silicone II Clear Gutter/Flashing. Be sure to use Silicone "II" and not "I". Silicone II caulk is what's called a "neutral cure" silicone, which means no acids are released during the curing process. The acid kind will cause the metal to rust.

Have some paint thinner and rags on hand to help with clean up. Also have whatever tools you'll need to tighten the screws with you. Don't want to be rummaging around for tools after you've started with the silicone.

Apply a bead of silicone to the outside of the hole. I'm not being shy about applying it. You can always wipe off the excess.

Do the same to fuel inlet back plate.

Mate the fuel inlet to the side of the van. Press hard.

The Silicone II has a tooling time of 6 to 8 minutes. "Tooling time" is the amount of time you have to work, smooth, tool or otherwise manipulate the silicone caulk once it's applied.

Because of the tooling time factor I didn't bother cleaning anything up but went right ahead and inserted the screws into place. It's going to get messy but nothing that can't be taken care of later.

From inside the rocker panel you can see that the silicone has nicely filled the gap around the edge of the fuel inlet.

Put the nuts on the stainless steel screws and tighten them down. I'm using two nuts and a lock washer on each screw to secure them in place.

Take the paint thinner and rags and start cleaning up. This is the "after" picture. Had to do a little extra work to get the screw holes and screw heads clean of the excess silicone.

At this point I finally got around to measuring the actual width of the rocker panel just below the floor level. If you remember from my earlier posting where I clamped the T-square to the side of the van and used the tape measure to plot out the side of the van I estimated this to be 6.17". From this direct measurement it's around 5-7/8". All things considered I'd say I got that one pretty close.

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**WVvan** · 09-19-2010, 10:38 PM

Heater Fuel Tank continued:

With the fuel inlet mounted on the van, time to get the final measurements and order the fuel tank.

There is one thing I hadn't mentioned before and that was the capacity of the tank I was planning on getting. The available length for the tank, shown in the drawing I posted before (click to enlarge), would be up to 47 inches.

I'd previously decided on a 8 inch diameter tank. According to the Coyote Gear web site a 44" long tank is the largest they make that would fit in the space. A tank that size will hold 10 gallons.

So I could install a tank up to 10 gallons in size but how big do I really need? I'll be using a Webasto Airtop 2000 as my heater. The Webasto web page for Airtop 2000 lists fuel consumption as 0.12 - 0.24 liters per hour. That converts to 0.03 - 0.06 gallons per hour. If you take the average of the two you get .045 g/h. Multiply that by 24 hours and you get 1.08 gallons per day. That of course is assuming you're running the heater 24 hours each day.

So using a 1 gallon a day as a rough guideline consider how I plan to use the van. My main use will be for camping. Actually it's how I've already been using the van since I bought it. Most of my camping trips are 3 to 4 days. So add an extra day for good measure and you get a 5 gallon fuel tank. Since the fuel inlet will be at a 30 degree angle the tank can't be filled to the top. So go ahead and order a 6 gallon tank to make up for that lost volume at the top of the tank.

I'd always get to this point in my calculations and then look at the Coyote Gear price list and start this internal monologue.

"Hey look, the 7 gallon tank is the exact same price as a 6 gallon tank. What the heck. Might as well order the 7 gallon. It's a free extra gallon"
"Well the 8 gallon tank is only $20 more than the 7 gallon tank. $20 isn't that much. I might as well get the 8 gallon."
"But you know the 9 gallon tank is only $10 more than 8 gallon tank. $10 is even less than $20. I need to get that bigger tank."
"If I'm getting a bigger tank I might as well get the biggest tank that can fit. Yeah, I need that 10 gallon tank! And now I have an excuse to order the internal baffles!!!!"

At this point I'd start grunting like Tim Allen and yelling "More Power!!!" and the cats would scatter. Eventually I'd calm down and realize that I won't need that much fuel and that it would just be extra weight. Then a couple of days later I'd look over my calculations and it would start all over again.

The last decisions were about what extras I wanted on the tank. I went for two 1/4" NPT female bungs. One bung comes standard with each tank. One bung for the fuel outlet hose and the other for the tank vent. I also ordered a Sending Unit Mounting Platform. This is where the sending unit for the fuel gauge will go.

By the way I just checked the Coyote Gear web site while writing this up and found out that they now offer 1/8" bungs and Sending Unit Mounting Platforms already configured. Two things I'd have ordered if they had been available. And I could have gotten a bigger tank for just a few more dollars.

After taking some more measurements under the van here's the drawing for the tank that I came up with. It's the same one I emailed to Coyote Gear.

They emailed me back with a question about the filler neck since I didn't want a gas cap. I explained that it would attached to a 1-1/2" ID fuel hose and that was it. It cost $228

Price breakdown:
Description Unit price Qty Amount
8x30 Base Tank with Brackets $149.00 1 $149.00
3" Diameter Sending unit Platform $26.00 1 $26.00
Extra 1/4NPT (2) Total $14.00 1 $14.00
Custom Filler Pipe 1.5 x 1.5 $20.00 1 $20.00
Subtotal $209.00
Shipping and handling $19.00
Total $228.00 USD

A week and a half later it was delivered.

As you can see they did an excellent job of packing.

It's just how I ordered it.

It comes with these two powder coated mounting brackets.

Almost looks too nice to hide under the van.

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