4x4 cost and advantage? - Page 6

Vanimal · 08-07-2018, 02:48 PM

The fact that 4wd and AWD are in many high powered vehicles and SUV's for a reason, not just snow! The fact that they are also desired by "serious" drivers is also unarguable. The fact that 4wd will get you to locations that a 2wd will not but MAY, is enough reason for me to have 4wd, especially in the back country and places like Baja, as the O.P. stated he visits! If I remember correctly, the O.P. stated he was a serious Baja visitor, hence the No-Brainer support and suggestion to go $X$ conversion. I am sure the one time he gets stuck in the Baja back country for hours cooking in the sun and his family at risk, he would love to hear the discussion on why 4x4 is or MAY not be needed, especially if snow is 1500 miles away!

skoronesa · 08-07-2018, 03:55 PM

Its always easy to get stuck. If you have 4x4 and get stupid you will just be stuck even worse. For the money a winch is by far the better 1st option, assuming you have something to hook to or can bury an anchor/spare tire.

I bought my winch for 300$ and mounted it my self. I would love to have 4x4 but I can't justify the 15k$ right now. With chains you can do 40mph in the snow/ice and text

rob_gendreau · 08-07-2018, 05:48 PM

Yeah, I've got a winch too. Never had to use it seriously for the van, but helped with other stuck stuff. I'm not convinced it was a worthwhile addition, at least compared to always traveling with a buddy and a tow and/or snatch strap. Been in far too many places where it wouldn't help much with extrication due to angle, lack of anchors, or maybe even power.

But yeah, it's cheaper than 4wd though.

Another thought: I needed (well, wanted I guess) to do some harder stuff so bought an old tracker for $3500, did a bunch o' work on it that probably didn't even double the price (mostly DIY), added winch, better tires and wheels, and a tow rig, and that maybe doubled the cost to $7000 at most, still under the price probably of a van conversion. Then towed it around and beat the crap out of it instead of the van. Was fun till I sold it. Have seen a coupla Suzuki Samurais near where I live and have to resist the urge to buy one of them.

WhitH · 08-07-2018, 06:47 PM

If the OP lives in Colorado (and snow skis, i think?) and plans on traveling to Baja a lot then I can't even believe this is a discussion. Get 4wd, end of story. Yes it will cost up front, but if the stated goals are to use the van as such then I'm not sure how one could advise against 4wd if it is possibly within the budget. A winch doesn't help much when you've run off the road on a twisty snowy pass or are all alone in the sand (ok possbily here). But it sounds to me like this is somebody who would actually use and justify 4wd.

And yes, one could potentially manage snow in 2wd with chains, uphill both ways, with radial tires, as some seem to be reminiscing about....but 4wd sure is a nice way to get to the desired destination safely and at a reasonable rate of speed. Texting not advised regardless.

skoronesa · 08-07-2018, 07:42 PM

Admittedly some of the class got distracted and became less interested in op specific solutions and more into general traction/recovery.

4x4 is the tits but costs a lot.
Chains are great when you're allowed to use them but are a pain.
Snow tires, especially with studs are great but are still just tires.
Winches are for after you make poor choices and aren't a replacement for traction.

I want to bring up something no one else has that I have been thinking of for a long time. Automatic tire chains. They bolt to the frame, pop out electrically, are already available for econoline platforms, and you can get a pair for around 1000$

rob_gendreau · 08-08-2018, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoronesa

I want to bring up something no one else has that I have been thinking of for a long time. Automatic tire chains. They bolt to the frame, pop out electrically, are already available for econoline platforms, and you can get a pair for around 1000$

Wow; never seen those before. Very clever idea. I wouldn't want then hanging there when I'm offroading, but they appear to work well. Too bad there isn't something similar for sand....

Vanimal · 08-08-2018, 02:48 PM

Auto chains are IDEAL especially for big rigs. I have seen them in action and would love a set IF, I had a 2wd appropriate vehicle. A Baja van not so practical, but yeah if he just skied I am 100% in favor of those. I did state in previous post about a winch and I have one but winches can lead to trouble too! For example taking a trail that you normally would not with or without 4x4. Pushing or going a little further in questionable traction less terrain when you would not! Do not deny it, we have all done it! I can camp out of a van without all the creature comforts, cabinets, pop top, batteries, solar, dedicated bed, or sleeping bag but I would not trade my 4x4 for any of those comforts in Baja or the back country! Remember 4x4 is not just for our safety others and family as well! I will tell you why!

Remember this post! If you ever get sideways on a hill because you were following a guy pulling a 8' U-Haul box trailer that you could not get around up a 4-6% grade in snow pack.
The U-Haul puller begins to loose traction, the trailer starts to go sideways. The driver starts to brake and jack knifes in front of you. You loose traction and to avoid make a drastic mistake and pull left. You are the front passenger in a 2wd car with 3 other big football college buddies returning to school from break. You slide across the center line into the downhill right shoulder bank. As you slide across the center median you look up and a Conventional Peterbilt semi with a box van trailer is doing about 40 mph towards you. The car pulling the trailer is spralled across both uphill lanes and partially a couple feet over the center line in the downhill left lane. You are with your front bumper in the bank blocking the right downhill lane. The truck headlights light up the entire inside of our vehicle like a cheap back yard concert! You figure this is it, it is heading for me because you are in the front seat. This Angel behind the wheel of the semi slaloms between you and the U-Haul hauler, he goes right having to hit some of the bank on his right, then at the right moment he pulls left going between the gap between you and the U-Hauler! That gap was approx. 40 feet wide but at 65* vertical! He did not even drop a gear, he had no time. That guy knew what he was doing! Yes this happen to me, I will never forget it. It goes to show you that you can drive in snow without 4wd but why would you want to if you do not have to. You can be the greatest driver in the world but timing is everything! Chains break, chains wear, chains fall off, chains get wrapped up and cut brake lines and fenders off so you have quite a choice to make!

maxswasser · 08-08-2018, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanimal

Auto chains are IDEAL especially for big rigs. I have seen them in action and would love a set IF, I had a 2wd appropriate vehicle. A Baja van not so practical, but yeah if he just skied I am 100% in favor of those. I did state in previous post about a winch and I have one but winches can lead to trouble too! For example taking a trail that you normally would not with or without 4x4. Pushing or going a little further in questionable traction less terrain when you would not! Do not deny it, we have all done it! I can camp out of a van without all the creature comforts, cabinets, pop top, batteries, solar, dedicated bed, or sleeping bag but I would not trade my 4x4 for any of those comforts in Baja or the back country! Remember 4x4 is not just for our safety others and family as well! I will tell you why!

Remember this post! If you ever get sideways on a hill because you were following a guy pulling a 8' U-Haul box trailer that you could not get around up a 4-6% grade in snow pack.
The U-Haul puller begins to loose traction, the trailer starts to go sideways. The driver starts to brake and jack knifes in front of you. You loose traction and to avoid make a drastic mistake and pull left. You are the front passenger in a 2wd car with 3 other big football college buddies returning to school from break. You slide across the center line into the downhill right shoulder bank. As you slide across the center median you look up and a Conventional Peterbilt semi with a box van trailer is doing about 40 mph towards you. The car pulling the trailer is spralled across both uphill lanes and partially a couple feet over the center line in the downhill left lane. You are with your front bumper in the bank blocking the right downhill lane. The truck headlights light up the entire inside of our vehicle like a cheap back yard concert! You figure this is it, it is heading for me because you are in the front seat. This Angel behind the wheel of the semi slaloms between you and the U-Haul hauler, he goes right having to hit some of the bank on his right, then at the right moment he pulls left going between the gap between you and the U-Hauler! That gap was approx. 40 feet wide but at 65* vertical! He did not even drop a gear, he had no time. That guy knew what he was doing! Yes this happen to me, I will never forget it. It goes to show you that you can drive in snow without 4wd but why would you want to if you do not have to. You can be the greatest driver in the world but timing is everything! Chains break, chains wear, chains fall off, chains get wrapped up and cut brake lines and fenders off so you have quite a choice to make!

I'm pretty convinced, and sent an email to Chris at UJOINT with no response yet. I'm going to do it if I can do it myself, which might be a bit of an undertaking. I can afford the equipment, and the tools. Just not to pay someone else to do it for me.

Vanimal · 08-09-2018, 01:38 PM

It will be not that hard with the right tools and U Joints video for you. I have a few years of fabrication under my belt when I did it so as I had said I basically did mine in a weekend having all the parts standing by and there was no video or instruction. To boot it was a leaf sprung axle I converted to coil springs. I had to make the arms and mounts, axle spring perches ect... If you go with the coil kit it is more involved but you will appreciate the smooth ride! Measure twice cut once! Good luck!