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10-03-2018, 10:01 AM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: WV
Posts: 77
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I took it to local mechanic. He lifted attempted to move the wheels, checked some other things found no worn parts. He also drove it. He did not feel like I needed to turn the wheels while he was checking things.
He called an alignment shop which basically said to not have very high expectations when it comes to Quigley, but to bring it to check and make sure everything is set correctly.
The mechanic described driving the van as memory steering, which I guess I described as 'stiffness' earlier on.
I did find some info on this subject on the net, which I plan to print out and bring to the alignment shop:
http://www.tirereview.com/solving-fo...teer-problems/
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10-03-2018, 02:04 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 624
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An inch of free play at the wheel rim doesn’t sound out of line for a pitman arm system - they aren’t precise on center like the rack and pinion systems you find in modern cars. The tightness would concern me though.
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10-03-2018, 03:59 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: boise idaho
Posts: 2,625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctictraveller
You pretty much described how my van was handling and still does to some degree. It's hard to describe, but it much more work to drive than it should be. There are lot's of things that will cause issues like this. Worn ball joints, worn bushings, a worn steering box, the amount of caster you have, the type of tires and the pressure your running in them, even worn rear spring bushings. I have a new Redhead steering box sitting on my bench to be installed this month, in hopes of recovering some of the precision I think the steering should have. I replaced it once before with a generic rebuilt unit, but within two years, the sector shaft has started to wobble. Redheads are built far stronger, so hopefully I won't have to change it again. If someone tells you your steering box should be adjusted, it's actually worn out, just replace it. So, have your shop check all the wear points in the suspension. The closer they are to new, the better the van should steer. Each item can make a small difference, but all together they make a big difference.
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^^^ almost all the same as that for me.
I call what my van does is swim. I give it input, but by the time that input arrives, im already countering it with input the other direction, so I end up wagging down the highway until ive counteracted accordingly.
same as artic, I have a replacement steeringbox that is a few years old and it sucks. I am thinking the redhead box will help some of my slop. ive played with the adjustment on the box and it made the steering more precise, but it doesn't relay it to the suspension. from your description, it almost sounds like someone else adjusted your steering box too much and that's why theres resistance feedback from your wheel.
I was also told by a suspension guru that part of my problem was that my track bar and my drag link don't run parallel to each other and that I would likely have the "swim" problems until that was fixed. however, I take that with a grain of salt because I know there are some Quigley owners out there that don't speak of the issues the few of us in this thread have.
the agile kit I got from ramsey way back helped my van a ton. in fact he used one of my quotes on his site from one of my posts here regarding my passengers not needing barf bags anymore, lol. originally I ordered the moog springs he recommended locally, made my own swaybar spacer, and used his 1st gen rip shocks. it made a huge difference. I could drive 80 on the highway one handed instead of with a 2 handed white knuckle death grip, but I still found myself playing the bounce.
ive since had john at agile update my shocks with the current valveing offered and replaced my worn out steering stabilizer. both those items helped as well and the van is working better than ever, but I still find myself chasing above 65 mph.
I have all new front end parts, but I am waiting for an opportunity to get the redhead box. im hoping that will help some although, I don't plan on it fixing it completely. from what ive read these heavy van require some caster and Quigley setups don't allow that adjustment. I have a local speed shop that will build me custom control arms so that I can add the 3-4 degrees of caster it sounds like our vans need. that is a ways off though. unfortunately, theres other pressing issues non van related in my life right now that get my income atm.
ive also noticed that my rear leafs are sitting flat which typically means they are spent. just another item that requires cash that's not currently on the table. Ive read that is another thing that can contribute to poor feedback from the van.
ill be watching this thread in hopes that you and artic find some answers. it will hopefully help me as well.
oh, one more thing. im curious which control arms you guys have? the u shaped ones or the later model tubular ones. I am thinking that my u shaped ones are part of the problem as well.
for reference, my van weighs 8950 and im running 17x9 wheels and 35ish" tires.
__________________
"understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of your car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of your car, horsepower is how hard your car hits the wall, and torque is how far your car moves the wall."
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10-03-2018, 07:05 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: WV
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenrie
^^^ almost all the same as that for me.
from what ive read these heavy van require some caster and Quigley setups don't allow that adjustment. I have a local speed shop that will build me custom control arms so that I can add the 3-4 degrees of caster it sounds like our vans need. that is a ways off though.
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I spoke to a very knowledgeable gentlemen from Agile, who has sold the Agile RIP to previous owner.
He made following suggestions
* check all moving parts mentioned in this thread, plus track bar bushings. So my full list now includes (ball joints, drag link, tie rods, sway bar bushings, trackbar bushings, and steering box).. Plus i should not discount message that ""cams might be installed wrong or over tightened"
* he mentioned due to extra lift in the van the "stock" truck arms are at a steeper angle and don't allow enough caster
* he said to get as much caster as you can (closer to 3-4%)
I am going to the alignment shop next week.
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10-03-2018, 09:54 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komrade
At this point I am somewhat "sold" on the caster idea, provided all other parts are in good shape.
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As I said, I have leafsprings in the front, so I added caster shims under the leaf pack, giving me a total of about 4.5deg's. Adding caster made the steering heavier, but with power steering it's quickly forgotten. It also improved the tracking and somewhat reduced the tendency to "swim" a good term to help define my steering. I also like "I call what my van does is swim. I give it input, but by the time that input arrives, im already countering it with input the other direction, so I end up wagging down the highway until ive counteracted accordingly."
Yup, that's it exactly....................
__________________
Arctic Traveller
KC6TNI
2001 GTRV
Advanced 4wd
Agile Ride improvement package
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10-04-2018, 02:43 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 324
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If you have the ATS stabilizer, it is adjustable.
Perhaps it's set too tight for your liking? I have mine set on the tight side because I don't have the RIP kit, so large bumps/seams tended to upset the vehicle when it crashed into the bumpstops.
Combine this with a steering box that is worn or set too loose, and you end up with exactly the symptoms you're describing. I recently had my steering gear replaced with a rebuilt unit, and the rebuilt unit is set a bit looser than the old gear. This was just before a 1200mi road trip, and I had a similar uneasy feeling to what you've described (although not nearly as drastic). My plan is to tighten the backlash on the steering gear a skosh.
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10-04-2018, 07:00 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: boise idaho
Posts: 2,625
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thanks for posting all those links komrade. now I just need some time to read them all, lol.
I didn't even realize you were on leafs artic. strange how we are having the same issues. gotta be the steeringbox since our suspensions are so different... thoughts?
__________________
"understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of your car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of your car, horsepower is how hard your car hits the wall, and torque is how far your car moves the wall."
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10-05-2018, 07:21 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Indy
Posts: 566
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One other thought. Tire pressure can make a huge difference in the way my van drives. At the factory E350 pressure of 80 psi, it's all over the road. When I have it at 52 psi based on my vans weight, it's much better. There are a few threads here about tire pressure requirements at different van weights.
__________________
2008 Ford E-350 Quigley 4x4 V10 - 164,000 miles
RB50, PH Top, Dual AGM Group 27 Deka, 2000 Tripplite Inv., No Propane or Water Systems
Van Weight 8,100 pounds, added one rear leaf spring, BFG AT KO LT265/70R17 E Tire press 50psi.
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CSC TT250 + homebuilt trailer
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