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Old 10-21-2015, 11:47 AM   #1
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Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

So I have been in the process of rebuilding my front axle (hubs, knuckles, brakes, u-joints etc...) and I noticed that the tie-rod for my van is a quigley specific part number.

It has a removable tie-rod end on the drivers side, but the tie rod itself and the end for the passenger side are one-piece. I don't want to have to order stuff from Quigley... I'd rather get it off the shelf at Napa so I was going to fabricate a new tie-rod that has a replaceable passenger side rod end. It's easy enough to do and it will be my fall back plan...

So this is the original as it sits now:



But that got me to thinking about the way the steering works right now... Right now my draglink runs from the pitman arm and attaches to the tie-rod. So a little bit of my steering input is being lost to the tie-rod rolling a bit.

Would I benefit from adding a high steer arm to my passenger side knuckle and running my pitman arm to it? That should give a very positive steering feeling and it seems like it would be easy to add a high steer arm and fabricate a tie rod and newer longer draglink while I'm in there.

This is the modified idea I'm thinking of:


Unfortunately I'm not near my van right now and I won't be for a little while so I can't really look at it :/



Has anyone done this to a Quigley van?

Is there enough clearance to do this or would my pitman arm contact the frame or something else during compression?

Would I be introducing bumpsteer into the system since I wouldn't be changing the trackbar angle?

Thanks in advance
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:01 PM   #2
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

In a perfect world your trac-bar and draglink would be exactly the same length and parrallel. Flatter (at ride height) is better. Longer is better. How do the lengths (draglink vs trac bar) compare on your current setup?
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:10 PM   #3
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

What you have probably noticed is that the drag link has a tendency to roll the tie rod up and down when turning back and forth. This changes the effective length from the pitman arm to the steering arms and results in a steering angle change that is not anticipated and adds to the wondering.

What we have done is install some rubber donuts, we call "Wobble Stoppers" between the tie rod end and the steering arms on the tie rod only. This keeps the tie rod from rolling and eliminates most of the problem.

Your idea of adding Hi Steer on the drag link has merit.

P.s. We have also customized the long Quigley tie rod end to accept a short end using a few different methods to save money. Problem is there are so many different Quigley configurations that it is almost a one off proposition.
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Old 10-22-2015, 05:47 AM   #4
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile
What we have done is install some rubber donuts, we call "Wobble Stoppers" between the tie rod end and the steering arms on the tie rod only. This keeps the tie rod from rolling and eliminates most of the problem.
could you possibly show us a photo? i have a feeling this is exactly what i have been trying to remedy. can you sell me some of those or provide a part number so i can pick them up locally?

if we could + rep, your repometer would be through the roof ramsey
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:46 AM   #5
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLetterJ
In a perfect world your trac-bar and draglink would be exactly the same length and parrallel. Flatter (at ride height) is better. Longer is better. How do the lengths (draglink vs trac bar) compare on your current setup?
Trackbar is currently a lot flatter than the drag link. They are similar in length though.
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:51 AM   #6
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

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Originally Posted by BajaSportsmobile
What you have probably noticed is that the drag link has a tendency to roll the tie rod up and down when turning back and forth. This changes the effective length from the pitman arm to the steering arms and results in a steering angle change that is not anticipated and adds to the wondering.

What we have done is install some rubber donuts, we call "Wobble Stoppers" between the tie rod end and the steering arms on the tie rod only. This keeps the tie rod from rolling and eliminates most of the problem.

Your idea of adding Hi Steer on the drag link has merit.

P.s. We have also customized the long Quigley tie rod end to accept a short end using a few different methods to save money. Problem is there are so many different Quigley configurations that it is almost a one off proposition.
Yes! That is exactly what I was seeing. I had my wife moving the steering wheel so I could check for play in rod ends and I saw the tie rod rolling a bit.

If I add a high steer arm the drag link would be longer than the track bar, but they'd be at much more similar angles. Is that better than the current setup where they are similar lengths but differing angles?

If I were to build a new tie rod, I'd likely just use some DOM and weld-in inserts. I'd leave the tie Rod mounting under the knuckle and I think I'd almost put the drag link under the high steer arm as well if everything would cycle OK without binding. I don't have a whole lot of lift so I am concerned that clearance may be an issue.

Is there any arm in particular that you'd recommend? I'm not wheeling hard... Just backcountry roads and dirt trails. 285's.

I have kingpins so I would need a spring style arms right?
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:54 AM   #7
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

This is just a question. Wouldn't the suggested drag link modification lead to "bump steer" where the passenger side wheel goes up in response to a bump, which pushes on the now repositioned drag link to steer the wheels and vehicle to the driver's side left?

Isn't the oem design (placing the drag link connection toward the middle of the tie rod) to allow the wheels to go up and down while minimizing bump steer?
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:27 AM   #8
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E350
This is just a question. Wouldn't the suggested drag link modification lead to "bump steer" where the passenger side wheel goes up in response to a bump, which pushes on the now repositioned drag link to steer the wheels and vehicle to the driver's side left?

Isn't the oem design (placing the drag link connection toward the middle of the tie rod) to allow the wheels to go up and down while minimizing bump steer?
OEM linkage is designed for IFS, where the drag link mounting point roughly corresponds with the pivots for each I-beam. That setup doesn't work well for a solid axle. Crossover steering re-sestablishes your steering linkages with the suspension pivots (which is actually just your tire contact patch and the frame end of your track-bar.

It can induce some bump steer if the drag-link is no parallel to the track-bar. Track bars can induce some lateral motion on the axle (which can feel like bump steer but really is just the body moving relative to the axle) which is why both should be about parallel with the ground.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:42 AM   #9
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

Thank you carringb! I have a Ford draglink/tie rod that has been sitting in my garage for installation on my TTB Bronco for a while and it is exactly what the OP wants to get rid of. For comparison, the drag link on my Salem Kroger designed solid axle E350 connects in a fashion similar to what the OP suggests.

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Old 10-22-2015, 09:12 PM   #10
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Re: Changing steering geometry on a Quigley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E350
For comparison, the drag link on my Salem Kroger designed solid axle E350 connects in a fashion similar to what the OP suggests.
What you have is an axle out of a 2005 on up F250/F350 and they have the drag link attached at the passenger side steering arm, with the tie rod directly below it. This is similar to what the OP is considering.

OP could make custom drag link and tie rod, implementing tube and rod ends in a very similar fashion much easier than a high steer arm.
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