Coil vs Leaf for 4x4 Conversion?

[h.grenade]

Thanks again guys! In my experience with DH MTB shocks and some aggressive trail riding I know that the tuning of the shock is probably more important than the spring in overall ride quality. There are no leafs in MTB shocks but the difference in valving system is huge. Rockshox has never worked for me, it blows through the first 30% very easy and then returns very fast. I have adjusted the compression and rebound to account for it but it still just rides like ass for me. Fox has always been good on every bike. It stays in that top 30% plush zone much longer until you take a real hard impact.

Thats one of the reasons that I like the WeldTec lift, the Fox 2.0s have a great ride quality. Out back the van is like a brick because I don't have enough weight over the leaves (leafs). The shocks can't even overcompensate for the heavy spring rates. I will have a few removed once my build is done and I have a final wet weight. I suspect that a good swaybar and properly tuned system of either kind would eliminate any death wobble.

My GF has a lifted jeep and it dives left/right any time you hit a bump at speed. I hate driving it. Or if it gets a crosswind. It's like a constant fight at highway speeds.

Also just a heads up Michael (Expo Vans) wrote back that he is no longer doing conversions, just selling the mounts. Advanced 4WD in Salt Lake is less expensive but I think I would really want to go with Timberline or UJOR. John at Quad Van is super nice but I would have to replace 5 wheels - no thanks. I have "lost" enough money on this beast haha

[motovan_mn]

Originally Posted by h.grenade

There are no leafs in MTB shocks but the difference in valving system is huge.

https://www.laufcycling.com/product/lauf-carbonara

And not quite MTB, but there's this:
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycl...ng-suspension/

[rizzabove]

I’ve had a few different systems. I’m now on a ujoint off-road 4x4 conversion with leaf springs. I was in the same boat as you with trying to make the decision between leaf or coil, after selling my agile off-road 4x4 van. I made the call to go with ujoint and I’ve never looked back! It’s a Bomb proof kit and rides great. You never see a ujoint kit getting replaced for something else. You also touched on shocks, this is huge. Get your shocks tuned and valved for you van weight and use. Accutune off-road is a great shop for that.

Stay away from Timberline, seems like they are doing half ass work and ghosting customers.

[Lilnuts2]

"Stay away from Timberline, seems like they are doing half ass work and ghosting customers."

Never heard that one before.

[rizzabove]

Originally Posted by Lilnuts2

"Stay away from Timberline, seems like they are doing half ass work and ghosting customers."

Never heard that one before.

I guess you heard it now. Let’s stay on topic.

[h.grenade]

There are other stupid things to consider also. Like I have curt front hitch that might be located in the same place that UJOR ties into the frame. That means if I want the front hitch back it would have to be on a bumper and I really don't want a giant front bumper right now. QuadVan can put a winch mounting plate right in the factory bumper.

I also wonder how strong the Aluminess/UJOR recovery points are. I don't see any info on their website about working load or failure point. If you have a 12k winch and do a double line pull that could put around 24k lbs of force. Well I guess its still putting 12k just with increased mechanical advantage. I'm still trying to figure this out. I doubt that those recovery points are going to stay on. I used a stuck force calculator and it could require almost 30k lbs of force to pull out when stuck in the mud up to the axles. A shovel is probably the best answer, 30k lbs is massive amount of force.

Anyway, just so many things to think about.

[rizzabove]

Originally Posted by h.grenade

There are other stupid things to consider also. Like I have curt front hitch that might be located in the same place that UJOR ties into the frame. That means if I want the front hitch back it would have to be on a bumper and I really don't want a giant front bumper right now. QuadVan can put a winch mounting plate right in the factory bumper.

I also wonder how strong the Aluminess/UJOR recovery points are. I don't see any info on their website about working load or failure point. If you have a 12k winch and do a double line pull that could put around 24k lbs of force. Well I guess its still putting 12k just with increased mechanical advantage. I'm still trying to figure this out. I doubt that those recovery points are going to stay on. I used a stuck force calculator and it could require almost 30k lbs of force to pull out when stuck in the mud up to the axles. A shovel is probably the best answer, 30k lbs is massive amount of force.

Anyway, just so many things to think about.

You’re right there’s a ton of variables to consider when building a van for your specific uses.
IMO, I’d have best 4x4 option for your needs, a higher priority than a front tow hitch. I’m sure there are front tow hitch's that will work for all conversions.
Also, There’s a member here ( I think it’s Saline) that confirmed that his Aluminess bumper is stronger than the ford mounts it bolts to. Using his front winch he broke a few ford welds on the bumper mounts. So those would need to be upgraded for maximum strength.

[aarcaris]

Figured I should jump in on this thread and add another vote for U-Joint. As you'll see from my other post on here and build thread I would highly recommend U-Joint's system. I would also agree with all the points that rizzabove brings up. The recovery points on the Aluminess bumper a pretty stout and do not just weld to the face of the bumper they are tied into the box that holds the winch and like rizzabove said you will probably rip apart the factory Ford stuff before you'll ruin the bumper!

[Vanimal]

Spoken from one who has had both I chose coils. Of course either can be made to ride rough by increasing the weight rating but they can also be made to ride smooth. Longer leafs allow more droop therefore more articulation but the coil set up is already there. The leaf needs no panhard bar but does benefit from one as Ford used them on several models. Coils allow you to push the axle forward but this can also be done with custom leafs and steering mods. I like the ride I have with my custom spun coils because the leaf setup rides rougher to me, leafs are also more money and more time to replace.

[Vanimal]

Spoken from one who has had both I chose coils. Of course either can be made to ride rough by increasing the weight rating but they can also be made to ride smooth. Longer leafs allow more droop therefore more articulation but the coil set up is already there. The leaf needs no panhard bar but does benefit from one as Ford used them on several models. Coils allow you to push the axle forward but this can also be done with custom leafs and steering mods. I like the ride I have with my custom spun coils because the leaf setup rides rougher to me, leafs are also more money and more time to replace.