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Old 10-26-2018, 08:41 AM   #31
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When someone will sell me the rear half of a Humvee.

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Old 10-26-2018, 10:32 AM   #32
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I can't say that I've ever seen a TTB with one coil spring and one leaf spring It must have had some serious bump steer with the original set-up too.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:42 PM   #33
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Thanks for all the positivity. I hope I am not coming off as trying to hijack the thread, there are only two active threads regarding this subject. I didn't want to post on a thread that hasn't seen a new post in 10 years.



I have thought long and hard about the rear axle. I don't think it is even possible to put ttb in the rear, the pumpkin would have to be centered, maybe mounted to the frame (no longer a ttb). I personally don't think it would be worth it to have any IFS in the rear. My hill climb video is a great example of an IFS not flexing enough (mainly due to the sway bar) and the rear solid axle flexing, connecting, and moving foreword. There is also the loss of payload and towing capacity.


A Van with Humvee axles would be amazing!

My plans for the rear axle is ditching the leafs and blocks, and installing a triangulated four link. The linkage would be real easy, finding room for the coils is the hard part.



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Old 10-28-2018, 06:58 AM   #34
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3 years later

***CAUTION: If you like to see projects completed quickly this is clearly not your thread.***


Like many of you, it means the world that Ramsey's advice is preserved in this thread. I did not know him personally, but respect him immensely. Some of his comments and challenges have kept me poking away at the project.



Well, the photos and videos of Timeless' completed conversion have me compelled to post an update. The end of this post can provide some life stories about what happens during a three year 4wd conversion...


All of the work I'm doing I want to preserve digitally and lack of a plasma cutter made me want to have all pieces cut on a CNC, but I didn't know CAD or have software. An old netbook running Linux and Freecad solved that problem. Nashville has a great metal shop (Loftis metals) that turns around my tiny orders in a day or two.






So let's see, the radius arms are built with heims, laser cut/welded radius arm brackets, arms still to be gusseted, fitted with shock mounts, and finish welded





I sacrificed my first TTB to make the jig to place everything. Then picked up a second with warn hubs, but 4.10s. I was a bit stuck on how to handle my gear ratio mismatch until a third TTB with 3.55s to match my rear appeared on craigslist. In the end I'm out $200 total for the three axles. It'll be hard to leave an axle unused knowing that every part I've needed can be run quickly on the CNC, so wife permitting this conversion will be followed by another.



And if you have the patience to still be interested, here's the insanity of my workflow in a single crossmember example: (sorry it's sideways)





Left to right (or bottom to top): After creating enough room for my differential to not hit the crossmember and having everything close to final resting place with the radius arms tacked in, I stared with a 1/4" hardboard template (that actually came from a combination of some CAD files shared by another member and sloppy cardboard templates). The hardboard template had piano hinges so that I could mount it and get my angles dead on with a digital angle finder so that everything mated properly. I used the slotted spots bolt holes to allow me to locate the holes exactly.



Once that was done, i designed the part on the computer, then used a laser cutter to cut some scraps of cardboard including cardboard support braces (not visible) that give me the exact angles I need based on my measures from the piano hinge model. The cardboard was rigid enough to bolt in place and the bolts fit in nicely.


I tried to think a few steps ahead for some gussets I'll need on the ECM, modified the file one more time, and sent it off to be cut. The cardboard was the sacrificed as a jig when I tacked up the 1/4 plate. It was the best feeling to bolt up the plate version and have the bolts drop perfectly through the engine mount brackets, stock crossmember, and my new bracketry.


I'm still designing and tweaking each piece so I would see this as a model in what the components may look like, but not necessarily final product. Progress has been slowed by: having a second son two years ago which means a 2 and 4 year old. They're already camping with us, just not in the van and those trips have pushed me to put in serious time. Then there were the other non-van projects... a nice treehouse and sandbox for the boys a remodel of part of the house to make a master suite and master bath, a career change that meant the loss of teacher summer work sessions. And van related projects... welding up a MOVE bumper, finishing the glasswork on the $72 fixed top from an airport shuttle.


If you have the patience, stick around. It'll be there sometime. I have more photos, but don't know what people care about, so I've limited to photos that are relevant to the narrative.
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Old 10-28-2018, 09:21 AM   #35
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The subtlety in the language describing your steep learning curve is impressive.

“but I didn’t know CAD” !!!!! Well you certainly do now. Well done on both the learning and the results.

I vote for more photos. This swap is new territory for all of us and the better the visual hints the more of us are going to be enjoying a much smoother ride, more frequently with our wives, and with a smirky little grin from a job conquered and DONE.
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Old 10-29-2018, 02:29 PM   #36
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I am glad I could be of assistance.
It is looking great. I second the more pictures / videos please.

I found a pre coil conversion picture. The steering linkage is as bad as it can get.



This is a great article to help understand the importance of steering linkage angles and alignment. it does not mention the 50, but the same principles apply

https://www.therangerstation.com/Mag...ering_tech.htm

This could also be seen as a reason to keep it as low as you can go. I don't know of a drop pitman arm that works with a van. I had to move my steering box






I am having trouble finding a good write up of the tie rod flip, but it is simple. I do be leave this is mandatory far all conversions, I know Agile does this. all you need is a GM 1 TON REAMER 7° (1.5" PER FT) and Knuckle Conversion Sleeves.

This is a good time to make sure you are running 1 ton steering linkage.

I could not imagine doing this without a plasma cutter, It saves so much time. My hat is off to you, if there is a will there is a way.

(Most people are not going to like this)
My recommended tool list:
-220 welder
-220 plasma cutter & cut off wheel
-Lift & Farm jack
-Bench & handheld grinders
-Camber caster bubble gauge
-Reamer
-Basic hand tools (too many to mention)
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:02 PM   #37
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Thanks for the heads up on the tie rod flip. All my agile photos confirmed it too.

None of the axles I've acquired have come on a vehicle where I have had to remove them, so I've never paid attention to the factory f250 setup. (Every one was a SAS leftover part.)

Eventually I would have had everything ready to go and be trying to connect the steering... That's when the google searching would have led me to figure out a flip was in order. At least now I can do it before everything is cleaned and painted.

Thanks for time saved
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Old 10-29-2018, 06:28 PM   #38
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That's a real nice solution, the article in the ford ranger link goes a long way to explaining things.

Most of the truck market customers either don't care enough about it, or just live with, massive bump steer, and stupid tire wear. The sand buggy guys are the same way, they kinda don't care.

There is so much detail and geometry visualization on the road to 'correct steering geometry' that it isn't funny. The parts counter guys don't help when they want you to 'just throw parts at it. Like you said, a longer pitman arm" works on a truck, not on an Econoline.

Tow a heavy trailer any distance, like I do, and poor steering geometry has you chasing the thing from right to left, left to right, wearing out your patience and the steering box, and making a stressful drive.

After several changes to my straight axle and leaf Dana 60 conversion, I worked pretty hard to get my steering geometry 'right', having the passenger knuckle machined for a high steer arm, building my own drag link, and using a different pitman arm.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:21 PM   #39
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The same principles apply to solid axles. just to over simplify, everything should be flat and parallel. The only reason I like to harp on the subject is because I see so many bad setups. Just about every f250 I see has made this mistake. The other day I saw cool brick front van at one of my local shops. I stopped in and could not be leave what I saw.





This axle has two track bars in an upside down V and no sway bar. OMG!!!

I am not trying to get you ahead of yourself, but...
On the subject of aliment, At the most convenient time (I did mine after everything else was done), I would install adjustable camber caster bushings (ball joints if needed). Most shops and technicians are not gonna want to adjust the camber and caster. If you take it in for alignment without doing this, you will likely end up paying for new bushings, ball joints, hub/baring service, the alignment, etc..... The tech I talked to warned me that is was going to get real expensive. whether you take it in or do it yourself is completely up to you and your confidence, ability, and knowledge. I know at my local less Swabs, thy don't charge you if it douse not need adjusting or something is bad and it cant be done.

If your able to do it yourself, you have the ability to play with caster to get it to drive just the way you want it to. I am at about 4-4.5 degrees (I think this is a good minimum) caster and was thinking about adding a degree to make the steering heavier and the return to center a little stronger. The down side to that is that when I turn my tires will be at more of an angle, wearing the sides more. adjusting cross caster (difference in caster between both tires) is a good way of compensating for road crown and getting it to drive strait without assistance.

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Old 10-30-2018, 06:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimelessAutoWorks View Post





This axle has two track bars in an upside down V and no sway bar. OMG!!!
I just threw up in my mouth

That suspension has to be bound up tighter than I don't know what. I think what he's built is a cross between a track bar tug-o-war, and a teeter-todder. I'll bet if you looked close, you'd find cracked welds at the track bar mounts

In case you're interested, I did a write up a few years ago on my front axle redo:
http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/for...edo-17676.html



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