Drivetrain and Transfer Case Carnage

[kzemach]

Originally Posted by boywonder

How do you know that the transmission and the transfer case are toast? Are you taking the shop's word who did the service?

Well, that's a very good point. At this point _I_ know very very little. I've got a call in to Advance Adapters (who does the Atlas) and will get Ford to look at the transmission/vehicle. It's all a bit of a mystery and of course I'm pretty frustrated, even if there's something I did (like what???). I really just need to take a deep breath, be glad no one was hurt, remind myself that adversarial actions rarely result in any good coming out of it (my take: legal action, like war, almost never has winners, only victors).

I'll post back in a few days or after the holidays once I have something actually substantial and not conjecture to shed some light on it.

[hogasm]

Looks like a lot of down angle on the transfer case

[kzemach]

Originally Posted by hogasm

Looks like a lot of down angle on the transfer case

It's just hanging there, detached from everything except the shaft going forward...

[BajaSportsmobile]

Originally Posted by kzemach

It's just hanging there, detached from everything except the shaft going forward...

The engine and transmission as a unit are located by the two front motor mounts and the rear transmission mount. The rear transmission mount is bolted to the transmission tail housing which is bolted to the transmission - in the case of a 4x4, the tail housing is also the transfer case adapter.

The transfer Case is bolted to the tail housing/adapter and hangs off the back without any other mount of its own. These tail housing/adapters are usually made of cast aluminum though there are some cast ferrous material. I have seen these break and cause the same damage you experienced.

If it was the tail housing/adapter that broke, I would not expect to find transmission damage or transfer case damage.

I'm interested to hear what is discovered.

[UJOINT]

Wow, I bet that didn't sound good. Is the t-case adapter (transmission tail housing) broken? Any chance that the front driveshaft bottomed out before this happened?

[unimogdave]

Man your killing use on this, we need a update ASAP. Hopefully the tail shaft is not bent. Photos would be great!!!!!!!!! Respectfully Dave

[SierraHawk]

My 4X4 SMB was built with the Dynatrac Dana 60 front drive. It has just over 200,000 miles on the drivetrain. I am making this entry only because I have spent over $18,000 on maintenance and repair of the trans and both front and rear Dana differentials. I have had shops throughout the western US deny responsibility for the repeated repair failures. Dyanatrac has also said that the failed roller bearings and shattered outer race on the front hub were BS.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
We have been traveling full time since 2007 and putting 20,000 miles a year onto the van drivetrain. In 2011 the limited slip disks in the rear diff needed to be rebuilt. I took my van into a 4X4 and driveshaft specialty shop in Las Vegas to do the work. I followed their break in instructions exactly as they were written.
After a diff oil change at 700 miles and approximately 1500 miles of in-town driving, I headed to Mt. Charleston. About half way up the road I stopped to check the rear diff. It was hot enough to turn water to steam instantly. It was March and the ambient temp was under 40F. There were also patches of snow under the junipers.
After letting the diff cool I drove the van back to the shop. James, the shop owner, told me that it was normal for the diff to get hot when it is being broken in. Two weeks later I took the van back to show him that the diff was still getting hot. He again dismissed my concerns.
Ten months later I was driving in Tucson. The van had not been off pavement for a year. As I was driving west out of town (35mph on paved surface) the pinion sheared two teeth. I called the shop and was told that their 6 month warranty period had lapsed. The front office manager said that they could rebuild the rear diff but I would have to pay for the towing, parts and repairs.
I took the van to a differential specialty shop in Tucson. The shop foreman tore the diff down and found that the prior shop had set the shims 30 thousandths over. From the wear patterns on the ring and pinion it was clear that the first shop had not set up the gears properly.
After the break in for the second rebuild I drove the van to Las Vegas. The driveshaft shop in Vegas tried to blame the damage on a theoretical “shock load”. They were enamored with the term “shock load” and repeated it scores of times during our conversations. I told them that at 63 I was not doing any kind of drag racing or wheel stands. I had not even driven off of a curb. They insisted that the failure was due to my bad driving habits. They would follow up that with the phrase, “… besides it is a heavy van.”
What is the point? I took the broken pinion to several shops. Each of the mechanics said that the teeth broke because of heat stress and not from any kind of shock load but none of them would agree to submit an affidavit or testify in court. I called Dana. The Dana tech told me that improperly set up gears would fail in a similar manner – especially if the pinion was set 30 thousandths over. He said that I could send the gears and bearings into Dana but he reminded me that I might buy another set of Dana gears but the driveshaft shop would probably buy dozens of gear sets from Dana in the future.
The Dana 60 front end hub bearings have failed three times in the past five years and both spindles have had to be replaced. With the first failure I held the roller bearings and pieces of the outer race in my hand. The other two failures were detected when I took the van to the Ford dealership for a repack of the front bearings. The Ford techs showed me the broken races and damaged bearings when they removed them. Both times they told me that there was evidence that water had entered through the spindle. That claim was supported by the rust that covered the spindle.
I called Dynatrac to see if there is a fix that can be installed to prevent water from entering the front hubs. I was told the water entering the front hubs and multiple bearing failures was BS. Not much I could do with that.
When I asked the Ford shop about warranties I was told that Ford does not warranty the work they perform on “non-Ford components”. I did not know this until I took the van back to Ford for the second hub bearing pack and subsequent repair. At one time I contacted an engineering firm in Phoenix that analyzes mechanical failures and provides testimony in court but they were not interested in looking at an axle failure in single van.
I have called BBB, state consumer protection, mechanics who specialize in diffs/transmission/transfer cases, mechanical engineers, etc. but no one was able or willing to provide support, an affidavit or testimony that could be used in court. Bottom line is that if you are not local there are very few repair shops that are willing to warranty the work they do and will expend an extraordinary amount of energy arguing that the failure was not their problem. As it stands, if you have significant problems, small claims court is often your only recourse but it will be up to you to convince a judge that the “expert” at the defense table is wrong.

[E350]

Thanks for posting SierraHawk!

[boywonder]

Originally Posted by E350

Thanks for posting SierraHawk!

^^^^what he said..........


That's one reason that I do all of my own work. I'm no expert, so I will research or do whatever it takes to repair virtually everything myself. That way, if something goes wrong or fails, I have no one to blame except myself. After you do something a couple of times, you usually can get it right.

I think the two drivers for me are learning something new, and the accomplishment of getting the job done. The challenge can be entertaining as well.


One thing that I find amusing is that my neighbors fairly regularly ask me if I know a good mechanic, roofer, plumber, floor guy, whatever, and I have to explain to them that I do not.

[E350]

SierraHawk: A 4x4 van is an anomaly. That's why I like mine. And that is why when I finish with the work I am doing on the Bronco I will be rebuilding the $18K Salem Kroger 4x4 conversion on my van. Because a 4x4 van hasn't had the millions of dollars of research and nearly 100 years of 4x4 engineering experience which the trucks have had and it isn't installed at an assembly plant by a billion dollar automobile manufacturer. I posted a longer version of the following, on another forum when a much more knowledgeable FTE brother was a experiencing a frustration similar to yours. Hopefully it will help, but to help it requires what could be an uncomfortable reality adjustment.

"Relax buddy. Your goal of ____________ is a reasonable goal and is likely achievable and you will achieve it.

But unfortunately nobody cares about my truck like me, and nobody cares about your truck like you.
So, sorry to remind you of what you already know, but you will have to educate yourself to know whether or not you are getting knowledgeable and good service from the professional service providers.

It is just the way it is in America today. Professionals do it for money. Amateurs do it for the love of doing.

Remember, everyone starts at "zero." Nobody deserves the "benefit of the doubt." Trust, especially with professionals is either earned by your actual experience or is unwarranted.

Hang in there. You will find the problem and fix it. And hopefully you will post the results so we all can learn."